Talk:Ultranationalists (Original)

Are the Ultranationalists appearing in Modern Warfare 2? PhantBat 23:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The magazine article stated that Makarov gained popularity after deeming Imran Zakhaev a martyr, so I would assume that those who find Makarov popular in Russia would be Ultranationalists. 23:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Safe to assume that Ultranationailst are basically modern day Soviets? Also info table.
Hey, I think it's safe to assume that these guys basically carry the same ideas as the old USSR. Because they clearly are shown operating under the Soviet Hammer and Sickle flag. And they mention restoring the nation back to the way it was in the Cold War. Also added index table at the top to increase professionalism. As almost ever Wiki page on a nation, military or organization has an info table.

Relization...
I just remembered im the one who created this article =3

'''MCPO. BCMatsuyama''' 22:43, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

XXX

I could be way off, but from what information I gathered about Russia in MW2 Is that Russia itself is a Communist country again, Obviously because it was stated elsewhere that the ultranationalists had seized control of Russia,

What doesn't make sense to me, is Who is actually in control, Makarov is the Leader of the Ultranationalists, but he is not the leader of the Country, So that must imply that the Ultranationalists are simply a radical political party, like with Americans, their Democrats/Republicans, But they mentioned "The New Russia", which again, must imply that the Country is a Socialist Government.

Also, what's interesting is that there are both Russian Tricolour flags, and Hammer/Sickle flags seen in the areas in game. even in Afghanistan, there is a Red/Black ultranationalist flag.

One thing I also assumed was that you are no longer fighting Russian "Rebels", this is evident just looking at the Combat Uniforms of the Russian forces in the Invasion, *Which I might add, look amazing* So basically, you're fighting an ultra modern Communist army,

I don't know how to use this discussion feature correctley, and frankly, I don't care. I tried.

~ Kastrenzo

Political ideology: Far Right?
If their a communist force, I'm sure their ideology is not Far Right, but Communism/Socialism.112 21:11, November 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, there is no indication from the games that they are Marxists of any stripe; neither Zakhaev nor Makarov mention the alienation of the working class, or say that their actions are designed to give the proletariat control over the means of production, or discuss the brutality of the captialist mode of production, or quote Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Castro, Che or any leftist thinker of any kind (social democrat, socialist, communist, Stalinist, etc). They idolize the Soviet Union, yes, but that seems to be because the SU was militarily powerful and could wield considerable influence on the global stage, and could dictate the fates of other nations and not be subject to the will of other states (in theory), not because of their political-economic model. Nothing about them says that they or their political ideology are leftist in any way, shape or form. The Phoenix King 07:14, November 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * In short they favor the Soviet Military dictatorship over the soviet economic system. OmgHAX!


 * Well, they are indeed right in the sense they want extreme nationalism, likely fascist dictatorships similar to the USSR post- Stalin until Gorbachev, and limit the rights of their citizens, however considering that in MW2 it's obvious they've recreated the Gulag system, typical of Stalin, and use the hammer and sickle on their flag as well as Soviet logos and emblems on all their equipment, we can assume that they are Stalinist communists, which would incorrectly mark them in the far left, according to most the world. --Detective P 16:08, November 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * They clearly are Communist. Which is a " far left" ideology. END of argument.


 * Could you provide some evidence to support this claim that the Ultranationalists are Communist, more than just a similar flag to the Soviet Union? The Phoenix King 10:18, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * Use of a Gulag, soviet propaganda and soviet-age posters and ads, Makarov and his team's tattoos depicting communist symbols, love for the 'old Russia', the Soviet Union as it was, likely including itself as a communist state. Detective P

The whole "left vs. right" thing is a false dichotomy. I would guess that these guys care less about economic policy and labor rights (the traditional "left vs. right" issues) as they do military strength and (obviously) nationalism. I would describe their ideology as "militaristic authoritarianism". Some might call it "national socialism", which I believe is more commonly known by another name, and it really defies the left-right dichotomy. 205.128.224.6 18:56, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Editing
Wheoever's been changing this article seems to be assuming an awful lot. Ultranationlists are not terrorists, the Ultranationalists are a political party. The logo is not correct,t he flag of the Ultranationalist party is red with a black star and a red overlaying Hammer and Sickle- this is confirmed in MW several times and then again at MW2 in the Gulag. The flag of the Communist Russian armed forces, however, uses the basic red star and gold hammer and sickle. The links with Makarov are shaky at best- he was an ally of Zakhaev, yes, but as it was made apparent in the game, Makarov was not a communist, as he was not loyal to any ideology or set of ideals, but rather in it for the money. The terrorist portion should be thrown right out, they never do any form of terrorist attacks, besides Makarov's crew, of course. I suggest that we stick more to what we know about the party and the Ultranationlist Russia. I'm making some changes, feel free to revert if I'm out of line. --Detective P 02:39, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also- I think we should use either an infobox or a table that can be set to the right of the text like an infobox here. I like that idea of having an infor box here, but the user who added it apparently ran into the problem I did- we don't have any infoboxes for such a thing.--Detective P 03:14, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * I had a info box but someone took it down.

you mention that they do not commit ANY forms of terrorisem apart from maks crew if you think that check the news paper articles

Needs more pictures
We got pictures of each of the OpFor models. Now that we got two games worth of Russians, someone needs to make screencaps of them. OmgHAX! 19:10, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Company?
One thing, the Shadow Company are not allies with the Ultranationalists. I will now remove it. Doc.Richtofen 20:31, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Renaming page
Hi all. Listen, I think we ought to change the article's name from "Ultranationalist Party" to just plain "Ultranationalists". They aren't called the Ultranationalist Party at all, apart from a few (very) rare occasions, and are much more commonly know as just Ultranationalists. Therefore, I think it would be a lot more professional to just name the page "Ultranationalists". As always, feel free to contact me on my talk page if you have an opinion on this. Thanks, Sgt. S.S. 18:55, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Translations
Hey guys, I finally found what the Spetsnaz are saying in MW2 Multiplayer.


 * brasayu granatu = throwing grenade
 * brasayu stan granatu = throwing stun grenade
 * brasayu vspishku = throwing flash grenade
 * prikroy menya! Ya perezaryazhayus = cover me! I'm reloading
 * vrag ubit = enemy killed (i.e. down)
 * vrag unichtozhin = enemy eliminated

Ref.: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/abbmp/mw2_what_are_the_exact_phrases_that_are_heard_in

  Maj.Gage   Talk . 17:00, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

?
please put in a recording or somthing in the 'quotes' section, i cant tell witch one is witch

Remove
Can we remove some of the galleries? Some of them are pointless. Also, the FSB isn't part of the Ultranationalists.
 * I would imagine they have people within the FSB. At this stage, we have no idea how deep the Ultranationalists really go. But you are right, though. That doesn't make FSB as an organization part of the Ultranationalist regime. Ghost Leader 05:41, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

---===how do you know===---

Ghost Leader, what are you talking about? It's a common thing that FSB is not Ultranationalists! How stupid people think they are the same. FSB is the New Russia's special branch military, but Ultranationalists are political party! FSB carries out order from the government, but they are not Ultranationalists!

No T90s/T72s dropped during the invasion
There could be any number of reasons for that, the most clear being that the invasion force is an airborne/air assault division and most main battle tanks are simply too heavy to be airdropped. Both the T90 and T72 are over 40 tons in weight and are heavy SOBs. Also, seeing as they Ultranationalists are now in control of Russia and have the entire Russian armed forces at their disposal, they'd be more likely to use T80s rather than T72s. Ghost Leader 06:01, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

Additional weapon lists
I question the relevance of the individual lists of weapons used under each of the galleries. I find them redundant and unnecessary, and I have doubts as to whether any reader actually looks at them. Unless anyone objects with valid reasons to keep them, I will most likely delete them. I just felt I should ask first. 16:14, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, they are unnecessary, and generally uneeded. Dolten 1164610-433px usmc logo svg large.png  Lets Talk  16:17, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I'm deleting them now. 20:25, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Spetsnaz/Security/Armed Russian forces are Ultranationalists?
Why the hell is this article talking about. The BTR wasn't used by the Ultras. Can we fix this page so it isn't making the Spetsnaz look like bad guys, Make sure the RUSSIAN FEDERATION DOESN'T get mixed with this terrorist group, And make it sensile. Why the heck would airport security be TERRORISTS. I've been to South Korea, A beautiful nation, And they have like SWAT/Police/armed forces at airports, They're still NOT bad guys. Thank you  17:40, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Black Ops trivia?
Shouldn't the trivia about Black Ops also be in, or moved to, the Soviet Armed Forces article? Like the announcer voices sounding similar, or Treyarch consulting Sonny Puzikas for info on Spetsnaz operations during the Cold War. The Cold War was in USSR times, not modern day Russia. Cpl. SharpShooter 22:12, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah and shouldn't we be creating a separate "Spetsnaz" page, instead of rederecting to the Ultranationalist Party article? Because it is clear that the (real) Spetsnaz will have a major role in Black Ops as the Soviet counterparts of the SOG unit. And these Spetsnaz have "nothing" to do with the Ultranalionalist Party of the Modern Warfare games. --PhantomT1412 09:15, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Help me understand...
We have come to the conclusion that Boris Vorshevsky is the new Ultranationalist leader of Russia, as of the 'August election'. He also seems to have a Stalinism form of government.

But what I don't understand is why Makarov, an Ultranationalist leader himself would create the airport massacre to create the idea that the Ultranationalists were backed by the US, while there is an Ultra regime in power, to garner the support for war?

Either Makarov/Boris isn't an extreme nationalist, or I don't understand something here? please give me an idea soon. RaptorMW3 06:24, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

It appears that Makarov is only related to Imran Zakhaev by way of business and/or friendship. Makarov's relationship satus with the Ultranationalist Party is still unconfirmed and it is stated in one of the cutscenes (Cliffhanger intro?) that he isn't loyal to a flag or a saet of ideals. Target53 12:24, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

The end of Call of Duty 4 says that a leadership struggle arose in the Ultranationalists after Zakhaev died. It seems that the party in power in Russia, the slightly less extreme version, won that struggle, and Makarov represents the more extremest wing of the party. FinalWish 20:53, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Makarov a pawn
I think you are mistaken, the Ultranationalists didn't want the russians to believe that they had anything to do with the airport attack, instead they left an American CIA operative dead on the scene effectively framing the US intelligence agency. Now we all know th CIA would never do such an outlandish operation but take into account that the Russians are beginning to revert back to their cold war era paranoia and they alwys did have a hardon when it came to American CIA. Also it seem that the gneral public has begun to idolize Zahkiev after his death perhaps seeing him as a savior in the sense that he was seeking to restore national prde in the face of a crumbling economy and corrupt officialdom. The spetsnaz and FSB had no link to the ultranationalists and the ensuing attack on America was thought to be just retribution for the airport attack (as well as a preemptive strike by the Ultranationalists upon both the Americans andthe Russian forces) Its obviious that the Ultranationalists are not in control otherwise why wold Makarov be hiding near the Russian Georgian border, the attack on America was a briiliant scheme by Makarov to tie up the government forces in armed conflict with the US thereby weakening both parties in order to buy him some time for his next move. We can assume that there are external forces at work here, perhaps another player a government officail or party using Makarov to set in motion a series of events that would leave Russia vunerable to a coup later on. singed69.171.162.246 19:48, October 13, 2010 (UTC)DECADENCE2-5


 * Although I think your explanation makes a hell of a lot of sense, it's never directly stated in the storyline. -- UNSC.jpg CoD addict  ( talk ) 19:55, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

August 2016?
The MW2 section of this faction says August 2016. Who wrote that? My discussions in the Rangers missions of MW2 indicate it would occur in April. AND in the cutscene of Hornet's Nest a scroll says "inwardly revised April rates."

( EvErLoyaLEagLE Talk 04:39, November 15, 2010 (UTC))

Not sure it was likely a mere vandal no one caught until now. You can change it if you like. Sniper team  82308  04:41, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

'''Answer: So what? What if the 'inwardly revised April rates' were actually business or history which were recalling the incident during the April(s)? It's prove that it was August 201x, if you read the newspaper hang by Makarov's safehouse.'''

Taking Control of Russia
The newspaper article here - http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vorshevsky-Cullen_Article.png - says that the Ultranationalist party took power in August. Is this August 2015 or August 2016? Do we know what month the actual gameplay takes place in? FinalWish 20:48, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

'''Answer: Good question. When the articles says they took power in August, it doesn't mean August 2016. They could have taken over in August 2011, or August 2012, or August 2013, or August 2014, or even August 2015. But it was confirm at somehow between these six years, it was August.'''

Ultranationalist Soldiers
Hey who write that Ukrainian, Chechen, Moldovan soldiers? No prove, no writing! Erase the nationals now!

Communists
There is nothing that ever said that the Ultranationalists were communists. All we know is that they're nationalists.Goodboy12 11:53, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Goodboy12, if based on my logistic thinking, part of the Ultranationalists militants were Communists. But some of them are far-right wingers, while some of them are far-left Stalinist Communists, while some are Chechen rebels. So what my point is that Ultranationalists doesn't have to be all members are Communists, or all members are nationalists. They are basically an union of the opposition of the Russian Loyalists and anti-Westerners. This is why their ideology also mixed up, nationalism + communism, because their members have different ideology thinking.

The reason they join this Ultranationalists is because this party is depicted to be the most active party which is against their Loyalist government, believing that they are trying to destroy their culture and their economy by 'prostituting the Russians to the West'. They idealize the old Soviet state because they believe that the days of the Soviet Union were better than the Russian Federation.

How they become the most active opposition against the Loyalist Government is unknown. But I think, IF I'm not wrong, they must have inspired by their current status in another's country toppling their pro-Western government. Such as the Arab Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932011_Middle_East_and_North_Africa_protests)

Myronbeg 03:39, May 15, 2011 (UTC)