Forum:De-Sysoping KATANAGOD

As hard as I find it to write this forum up. I feel his behaviour of late has finally reached a point where it is no longer fit for someone of his position.

kATANAGOD is currently a Bureaucrat, Checkuser and VSTF member, however his recent behaviour has been malicious and rude. Two qualities we should not lookf or in a user, let alone a b'crat. The most recent event has been the current forum regarding joke kicks, where his aggression has lead to nothing more than a tirade of insults against myself, and despite vocally stating my discomfort, has refused to offer an apology, or even attempt a subject change, despite being the instigator of these insults.

I have also been given a chat log seen here of Kat bullying fellow user YellowLucario, possibly the lines of most note are "1:07 FireBird- better not do it again, i guess, he's not pleased / 1:07 KATANAGOD tough tits don't enter the ring if you plan on getting offended" clealy showing another time of disdain towards upsetting another user. And prior to this, I have been given multiple complaints from former user Inkie Twig, whom became so distraught from the lack of behaviour change left not only this Wikia, but Wikia in a whole, and will in fact refuse to leave any feedback on this forum.

Past evidence has been witnessed on his talk page after he created a fake de-sysop forum for Madnessfan34537 which was later deleted as the forum was placed on the War Room (like a real one would) on a completely normal day (so not April Fools or anything). He once again shows clear aggression to the multiple users telling him what he did wrong, and simply ends the matter with a Vault Boy thumbs up image to simply dismiss the entire thing. A recurring theme with all these issues also stems from his sense of humour. He often attacks those that attempt to stop anything he considers a joke when other do not. Stating things such as people having a "warped view on reality" and telling those that warn him "just because you think you can berate me for an immature joke doesn't give you the right to call me a shitter, please read up on our policies on being a dick", which can seem hypacritical when looking at the above logs as well as the following image of him naming everyone here "Dickheads", and then in another forum calling us all "elitist" which frankly seems to contradict itself as he seems to be at one point claiming he's better than us by calling us "Dickheads" and then in another claims we act above him.

Furthermore, on the topic of "reading up on our policies", some time ago we had another forum regarding joke kicks and bans. The outcome of the forum was that joke bans were power abuse and ""Joke" bans are not allowed under any circumstances." was added to COD:CHAT. However a few days ago, 2 users (Madnessfan34537 and Feargm) were banned from chat with the reasoning of "( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ", which were clearly joke bans. Like a bit of an idiot I decided to let the matter slide as I believed it would be a one-off joke and that his attitude would return to normal.

Also, while not powerful enough reason on it's own to warrant a desysop forum, Kat's wiki activity has been waning, despite stating "Nevermind the fact that a community blog hasn't been published in close to a month. Editor count hasn't been lower since 2010, Community itself is slowly dying. The chat may as well be dead 80% of the time. But Obviously the problem is joke kicks, that'll certainly help the wiki out! Of all the issues, it's joke kicks that need to be discussed. Jesus christ." in response to myself on the forum, despite his own personal contributions to the Wiki itself waning, likely showing a clear disinterest to wanting to be here, which may also explain why his behaviour is so poor. His last edit to a mainspace article was in Febuary, and his last edit to a forum aside from this one and the joke kick one was July. Such a large gap in mainspace editing is a worry for someone of his position. While this would mean nothing on its own as shown by our list of inactive sysops, paired with his behaviour does seem to show that despite his arguments that we're the ones not helping the wiki, his contributions have been non-existent, showcasing likely that he has no desire to even be here any longer. In fact, his comment "But do whatever you want, if you guys want to run the wiki into the ground and make it a PC ceramic gallery go ahead." seems to more or less confirm this, as it does seem as though he has no real interest in being here.

Overall, I feel that KATANAGOD's attitude to others as well as the wiki are not those that we seek in bureaucrats. They members of this wiki that are seen as rolemodels for the wiki, and this is not behaviour we want to showcase.

Katanagod used to be a very good and close friend, and it is with a heavy heart I post this. However, recent events show me that this Kat is not the same one that I became friends with, and until that Kat is back, I am doing what I feel is best for the Wiki. 00:25, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Edit: Due to a recent attack on myself after the creation of this forum, the outcome scenario has changed. As Kat chose to decrat himself, I'm demoting the forum to a de-sysop forum, given his behaviour is not really good enough for that of an admin. 01:30, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion
Recent behavior? I can't remember a time where he was nice other than for a brief moment or when things are going according to his wishes. The reason why I initially abstained from supporting his RfB was because of his hotheadedness and easy time for getting into conflict, and I switched to support after he said he'd improved on it, but it looks like that was just fabrication. Not basing this on what Sam posted alone, but from what I've seen of him in the past. Being stern and straightforward is one thing, being outright rude and in general a dick is another. While I notice that the wiki has been in a decline and the amount of regulars isn't nearly as high as it used to be, I'd still prefer to keep some sort of professionalism around, and having a bureaucrat with such an attitude is exactly the opposite of that. 00:38, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

From what I've seen of Kat recently, this seems like a fair notion. His behavior towards everyone, even other B-crats is appalling, definitely not fitting of someone his rank. He also does not take issues seriously, so I believe this removal of power is just.  Pat  Hugz for GIR? Vinyl Pat  The Mixmaster 00:44, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

katana has done me a few solids, like being the one to nominate me for adminship and unbanning hunter for me, so i had considered him a friend. however, ignoring his behavior, from what sam has shown evidence of to what i saw in a forum between him and damac once, would feel almost like "taking a bribe". i do feel very bad for voting to support his de-bureaucratizing, i feel like im betraying him here, but i must do so for the good of the wiki. 01:00, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * edit: it has turned into a de-sysop forum since katana removed his bureaucrat rights, but my vote stays the same for the same reasons because his behavior is also un-sysop-like. 01:37, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Sam. Don't feel bad. It's not your fault Kat isn't fit to be a crat here. I have been victimised in the past by Kat, calling me retarded for not believing that PC is the best thing ever and having plenty of discriminatory names called to me of which I would not expect from the most seasoned of trolls. Kat simply isn't fit to have any powers, as he has shown no ability to use them appropriately, such as kicking me for having an opinion. I have been discussing this for a while now with certain users, and while I will certainly testify further in the morning, I feel that for the good of the wiki, it is time Kat at the very least lost his bureaucratic powers. 01:07, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Lies. If you can find a log or any sort of evidence that isn't doctored, to back up anything you've said, let me know. "Kicking me for having an opinion" lmao KλT 01:16, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

What I've seen of his behaviour, both over the last twenty-four hours and further in the past, has lead me to feel that such an action is warranted. 01:45, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Taking a step back
If we all took a step back and spent a little time looking at Kat's time on this website as a whole I think everyone would be considerably more hesitant to support this... what happened recently on that other forum is worth bringing up but can we all agree that going from "Let's not kick people for funsies guys" to "Let's demote someone who's been an admin for years" is a little... far? That has been the progression of events here, after all, no matter how indirect the causation was.

Kat has plenty of good contributions. Hence he is an admin. Whenever it is suggested that a user's rights be removed, why those rights are even present in the first place still has to be considered. Yes, that means considering that maybe that user is a pretty good help after all. Yes, that might mean opposing something like this even if a reason for doing so is apparent.

I'm not suggesting that Kat be excused for what he was saying on the other forum and this one, however I am sure that if he was given an opportunity to, he would be more than happy to admit that he said things either that he shouldn't have at all, or in a way he shouldn't have.

Removal of rights is a real last resort. Is this really a last resort situation...? 02:41, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, It's not. 02:43, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I personally didn't vouch for his sysop rights to be removed, he did that himself. I'm aware stripping someone of their rights that they've earned is a penultimate resort (blocking being an even harsher penalty), but this is *continued* poor behavior at a level where you're supposed to set an example. If he were to be even a little respectful on this forum or show that he gives a shit about his now former rights (instead of throwing a tantrum), I wouldn't be so eager to support their removal. Has he done good work before? Yes, absolutely, but I'm not comfortable with having a crat who cannot control his temper when it has been an issue in the past numerous times. 02:57, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I would imagine that someone getting upset in a situation like this to be quite normal. Would it be better if he kept a more 'level head'? Of course it would. But I don't blame him for becoming upset about this.  03:04, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Drem, I don't think it should be expected of anyone to remain completely level headed when confronted with a situation like this. 03:07, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Meh
Done with this, i've been arguing with sam for the past 3 years about literally nothing. If you all want to read a forum made by out of spite by someone who hates my guts, that's all of your guys trouble. But nah, I'm done. With the amount of things i've done for this site, and this is what happens? No thanks. GG sam. KλT 01:16, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Now I suddenly hate your guts despite how most of the time you're the aggressor. In fact, your very behaviour scares me, and even when you upset people, you refuse to apologies because you seem to think your better than someone, or because it's wrong for that person to have gotten upset. This isn't out of spite, your outbursts towards me and FireBird- on the other forum was simply the last straw. And if this was a spite forum, then frankly I don't see why MLG and RisingSun would be supporting. 01:35, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Because it's so overwhelmingly biased dude. I actually can't even believe people are taking this seriously. I mean, If the people believe misinformation and cherry picked logs, that's out of my control. Also how have I abused my bureaucrat rights + sysop rights? This whole thing is a joke. KλT 01:42, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * The Joke bans were grounds for abusing the powers, since that was in place and on the policy page a long time before you did your two to Madness and Feargm. Furthermore, your overall demeaner is grounds to make this forum. you can call it spite, bias, anger or whatever you want. But this forum has really been in the works for years, and it was your recent actions that pushed it in to completion. Yes the logs and pictures shown aren't good, but that's because they are supporting evidence. I'm not going to post a random log of you being nice to someone in a de-sysop forum am I? People are taking this seriously, because it's a serious forum. Maybe you like to make joke de-sysop forums, but I don't. I'm sorry if you somehow feel this is a joke, but frankly how long you've been here and any good things you've done at this point are outweighed by the bad things you've done. If you really feel you're an asset to the wiki, then you can re-earn your sysop rights should you lose them. If not then there's no one forcing you to stay. 01:49, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * You're fucking deluded man. KλT 01:59, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Also fyi everyone i've already removed all of my rights so you guys can stop circlejerking over how i'm hitler. KλT 01:48, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * See. This is the issue. Are you now trying to make us feel sorry for you? You outright attacked us, and now you're losing you're trying to back out and make us out as the bad guys? This forum will continue, because for all we know enough opposes may well come in to play that allow you to regain your rights. 01:51, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * I quit, you win. I'm done with arguing with you. Play the victim role all you like, it takes two to argue. I removed my rights because this forum is so skewed and biased, there's absolutely no fuckin' point to even trying. This is what you wanted right? Also "Us"? Who's this "Us" you speak for? KλT 01:57, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * The "us" refers to the "everyone" your fyi was aimed at. 02:00, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Aight dude peace. KλT 02:03, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Comments
Wait a minute here, isn't the process of removing admin rights from a user supposed to be a discussion between admins and 'crats, not put up to vote in the War Room? Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 01:31, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * No, it is War Room. Since giving them rights is a community choice and removing them is the same. Example would be Sp3ctr3. 01:33, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, my bad. I thought we moved it to admin discussion after that, but it appears I got this and "Banning X User" mixed up. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 01:45, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

Currently reading this forum, and I know I'm not as active on the Wiki as I used to be, but I feel I need to say this... again.

Why, why, why, why, why, why is it that every single time someone is having issues with someone in a position of even minor authority on this wiki, absolutely NOTHING is done about it until it reaches a boiling point and results in forums like this. A massive wall of text where a ton of evidence is presented where:
 * A) People didn't do anything to try and correct the behavior when it was happening and afterwards.
 * B) The person performing the behavior wasn't warned, or even contacted about it. Leading to a total lack of discussion.

I get it, I seriously get it. People are tired of Kat's attitude but do you know what doesn't solve it? This, this right here. A De-Crat/De-Sysop forum? Seriously? This is not how you address poor behavior, I don't care if they are a higher up user.

None of the evidence you present in the actual introduction to this, to me, indicates that Kat needs his tools taken away, or at the very least does indicate that it's not the first step in the process. On only one occasion of the presented evidence is Kat ever confronted about his actions, and you know where it's done? A talk page, a public talk page? Are you joking? You're never going to get anywhere by underhandedly attacking a user and low-key inviting others to gang up on him, regardless of his own actions.

Even in the goddamn chat log of Kat "bullying" YL no one, ever, tries to stop him until YL is already gone from the chat (As far as I can tell based on the log). Even then, all Firebird does is say "hey guys that wasn't nice". Once again, no personal interaction. No actual indication that peoples behavior should change. Just "hey guys leave him alone".

I understand Kat's behavior was rude, the evidence presented makes that clear enough, sometimes overly out of control. But that's not the point I'm making (and also why I'm not opposing/supporting yet). THIS IS NOT HOW YOU HANDLE THE SITUATION.

You want the wiki to be treated seriously, you want it to be a mature place for discussion, and you see that one user might be causing a problem in that regard.

But this is NOT the way you handle it, and is an overall fuck up.

I've brought this up in the past. DISCUSSION is the first step. PRIVATE DISCUSSION. 1 on 1 with the user in question. Kat isn't a troll, he's not here to bring the wiki to it's knees, nor is any other trusted user who's been with us for years. Every trusted member of this community deserves a chance to be told "Look, I've been noticing some problems." and then, after a discussion, it IS up to the user to improve or not.

And no, arguing back and forth in public spaces and exchanging blows with one another does not count as a discussion.

But why try to do things right when we can just raise our pitchforks right?

02:36, December 24, 2015 (UTC)
 * Let me put in place a disclaimer that despite how strongly worded this message is, this is not meant to be an attack on anyone's character. I wouldn't even be surprised if this thought never even entered the mind of several users. I'm just very passionate about this particular issue, and always have been, so I find my tone appropriate. 02:41, December 24, 2015 (UTC)

I strongly agree with Damac and Cod4. This really isn't a good progression of events. KAT is a great friend, and even I can admit that his behavior and attitude can get a bit annoying. However, taking away the rights of someone for a small amount of things not even done constantly through the year is a bit overboard. At the least, he should have to apologize to Exacri and YL. At the most, a reprimand and some other form of punishment that doesn't include taking away his rights that he obtained for a good amount of work over years (compared to the combined couple of hours or, at the most, days that he has caused trouble). I'm sorry, but the amount of good Kat has done the wiki far outweighs a few situations of bad behavior. 02:55, December 24, 2015 (UTC)