Forum:Removing themes for article templates

Simply put, templates such as Delete are aimed at the editors who maintain the articles, who only represent a tiny minority of overall visitors. To everyone else, the big monolithic templates only act as an eyesore. As such, I propose we make the templates more minimalistic; while this may not be as fun for editors, it's better for the bigger picture. 17:23, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
i agree. 17:25, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea. Have it as an addon to. 17:28, May 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * How do you mean? 18:50, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I think he means like the 'featured' is on it. Though I'd like to have a separate top icon set for them. 18:53, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Philly's idea is good. I can make the image now :3 17:49, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. 17:51, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Me gusta. Sgt. S.S. 18:25, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Disagree, the themed templates are brilliant. 18:52, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * They take up gigantic portions of the page, are only helpful to the few users who edit the page, and quite a lot of them are really awkwardly phrased. (The AfD one is a perfect example.) According to the Admin Dashboard we got 2.3 million page views last week, how many of those were actually from contributing users? 19:21, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

hi -- 18:54, May 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * fap 18:59, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * N7 came 19:21, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

While I agree with Smuff that the large templates are quite an eyesore, I also agree with COD4, the themed templates add a little bit of fun to our templates and make them seem much more friendly. Making every template alike and that same stale green makes everything seem too strict and dull in a way. 19:27, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I looked over a few of the templates, and yes a few of them are awkwardly phrased as Smuff said. But, they can easily be reworded. :3 19:29, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Which is why something like Phillcj's idea would make sense, it's not an eyesore and you don't need to beat around the bush trying to make everything seem less imposing or worry about awkward wording. 19:31, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Also, I'm not sure if this would just apply to improvement templates (like Delete) or other things like the spoilers template. 19:31, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, Mass Effect Wiki has a rather pretty spoiler template that doesn't take up the entire page and still can have a nice quote attached. 19:38, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Those kinds of templates would be pretty nice. 19:40, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * We should definitely have something like


 * 19:55, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Swag. Sgt. S.S. 20:01, May 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Or you could have the logo on both sides of the template (Up to whoever), and the logo could change with each game it's added to also! 20:03, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Per Redskin and CoD4, I see no reason to take away themes on templates, a little light-hearted humor won't destroy the wiki, nor will it deter anybody just visiting the page. 19:36, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Forcing themes on the templates makes half of them sound really awkward. 19:38, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * So we can re-word them a bit. What regular person is going to be on the page like "Oh, that template is a little oddly worded, screw this website."? We're a wiki, not a government or very important site, be a little in-formal. 19:42, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Either way, it doesn't detract from the fact are current templates are ugly as hell. Like I said above, Mass Effect Wiki has a rather pretty spoiler template and you could still keep your quotes. The pictures (and the subsequent colour schemes which try to match the picture) are half of what get in the way so much. 19:47, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * K, then change them if you want, but you're making it sound like a couple templates that don't meet your standards are going to destroy the entire site. 19:55, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * To be fair, at school my friends were looking at the site and asked what those pictures were doing at the top. 19:56, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Smilular, I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a neat template that tells me concisely what it is there for than a template with some corny modified quote and an irrelevant image. Sgt. S.S. 20:04, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Sgt. S.S., I don't know about you, but I rather have a few lighthearted templates ever now and then, rather then a ton of identical, stale, dull, Olive Drab Green templates everywhere. 20:09, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * You can still have quotes, like we established above it's more the pictures and the awkward wording which could do with a rethink. 20:28, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

Looking though I think we should take a middle ground. We keep the templates small with perhaps just the CoD wiki logo (the one used in the forum header) as the image, but the text can have a quote, followed by what needs to be done. Also as most designs (infoboxes, navboxes) are using black we should make the templates black, not olive. 20:38, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's my example.

I had something different in mind for a compromise; how about making the templates simply smaller, or maybe at the bottom of a page instead? That way, it doesn't seem too out of place, and themes are kept. 21:09, May 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not overly sure if I like solid black, maybe more of a gray black like the background maybe? 21:24, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

& Look okay to anyone? 01:38, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'd nix the grey background. Having it just plain white should be sufficient. 13:21, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I like it. 20:03, May 14, 2012 (UTC)



Thoughts? 02:21, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

The idea of having the templates so attention-grabbing is to promote the betterment of the articles by its readers. Having a deletion template that draws a reader's attention will convince them to look into that article's AfD page and possibly raise a good point, whereas a template that is minimalistic will be passed over by most readers. Smuff has missed the majority of the reasoning as to why these templates have remained so large, in his reasoning that they only aid those that edit the articles, in that he has not considered the fact that they are primarily there so that readers who do not regularly check such pages as the AfD and ID may be subsequently inspired to do so. Joe Copp 01:51, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Per Joe. 03:58, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah but at the same time you're completely missing the point of what the wiki is to begin with. Yes, the large templates are helpful for the editors, but >%90 of traffic is done by non-contributing anons who will, at best, comment on blogs. To the majority of the readers, the titular templates serve as nothing but an eyesore. Yes, I understand the editors at the wiki may enjoy the templates, but it's not the editors who make up the majority of this wikis readership. 13:11, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * And I assume you're bringing this up as these anons have started complaining about them? 13:27, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Personally I haven't noticed any visible complaints from anons about the templates. 13:33, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * If it's attention-grabbing we're focusing on, couldn't we consider making the text in the template larger? Kat's proposed stub template looks ideal -- the big font draws the eye quite well. Sgt. S.S. 19:18, May 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * The largest reason we have such templates at the top of pages and so large and attention-grabbing is so readers are inspired and convinced to edit them. Joe Copp 13:50, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then why are stub templates at the bottom of the page? 14:01, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Though it's probably not the reason, I think it looks silly (or at least not as good as the other templates) on top of the page. 14:04, May 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware that stub templates were to be placed on the bottom of pages. It wouldn't make a difference, however, because chances are that readers wouldn't have to scroll much, if at all, to see the template. Joe Copp 14:08, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

One of the biggest reasons I don't even bother reading the templates is because, as stated previously in the forum, the templates are eyesores. When I'm reading an article, I ignore the template as best as I can because it just looks so ugly, I don't even bother reading the damn thing. They may try to grab attention, but at least go gentle on the eyes and readers may actually read the template, like the template KATANAGOD made. That's just my two cents. 23:54, May 14, 2012 (UTC)

I see no trouble with them. There a large template at the top of the page, they aren't getting in the way of anything. 01:47, May 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Per Damac. 15:45, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

As other people have stated before, I prefer the big templates with pictures and quotes because I notice them. I usually don't pay any attention to the normalized templates. 22:49, May 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * But like I said above, couldn't an alternative to a big picture and quote be a larger font size? The stub template that KATANA proposed has a large font that draws the eye quite well. I think something like that could work. Sgt. S.S. 08:59, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah well you'd notice this as well, and it's not a monolithic template. Hell, it's a spoiler template and if anything should take precedence over templates for editors. 12:53, May 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought we decided the wiki wouldn't use spoiler templates for things that have been released for a while. 02:18, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * And...? Black Ops II releases in 5 months, we still use them. 02:35, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well he said they should take precedence, but we don't really use them that much. I always found them to be a waste of space as our spoiler policy basically states "Read at your own risk". 05:49, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I have always believed that the templates are oversized, tasteless and needlessly use lame quotes. Though I haven't glanced at them recently, I feel that, as an editor and a reader, I don't need most of the initial page being a huge maintenance template. I like the smaller versions presented in this thread: they're smaller, neater and get the point across; whereas some of the templates we use are vague and confusing as to their actual purpose. In regards to attracting more attention, I disagree. A bigger template won't make the article improve any quicker. Those who can edit will see it because they look for it. Size doesn't have an impact on the speed or quality of edits. --Scottie theNerd 07:52, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I still prefer the themed templates but if we were going to remove them Kat's template design is the one to use. I also think that part of the reason themed templates don't look very nice is because the solid black looks really, really well... bad, even if the theme of the wiki is dark. The original light green looks so much better. 11:07, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Best of both worlds
Alright. Since people seem to like things both ways, here's exactly that; Neat small easy on-the-eyes templates with the themes still implemented!

Let me know what you think! 12:06, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

To me, the smaller images make the images themselves look useless. If you could increase image size a little bit, I imagine it would look much better. 14:05, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, can you make the images slightly bigger? 15:40, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I still don't like the quotes. I really feel that they have no place on our templates. Sgt. S.S. 16:39, May 21, 2012 (UTC)


 * Why? 16:49, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * They look out of place and are completely unnecessary, that's why. A template is capable of getting its point across without some corny one-liner. Sgt. S.S. 17:00, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Today I Learned that every quote in Call of Duty is a corny one-liner. 17:10, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not all of them, but most of the quotes used on the templates really are corny and awkward-looking. The templates would look much better without them. Sgt. S.S. 19:27, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not that it matters, but I don't like the quotes. I don't see why we can't have straightforward templates. --Scottie theNerd 12:18, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Per Scottie, the quotes are usually long and take up an amount of space. Simple templates still seem like the best choice, even if we leave the images in. Just rid of the quotes. 16:04, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

Not bad Kat, not bad. 18:25, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

I made the images as big as they can; any bigger and they make the template bigger then its supposed to be. let me know what you think (Again) 22:15, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm actually quite liking it. The smaller template just works.

23:52, May 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * I like it. 00:09, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks really nice now, just a suggestion, maybe put the logo on the opposite side of the logo? C: 23:29, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

Vote
Moving along; It seems that people are split on the themes for the templates. Everyone seems to like the smaller design for the templates, Now we just need to vote on wither we keep the themes:

Keep the themes

 * 1) I personally think the themes belong on the templates. They're clever and look fine on the smaller versions. 11:19, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) per Kat Twily Scratch-chan 11:23, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) Because the themes are appropriate and look very nice when they're made smaller, like Kat has done. 11:26, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) Per Kat. 11:34, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) Nothing wrong with them. 19:24, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) Well I'd rather have no size change but whatever. To elaborate on my support of keeping the themes, I find them to be an entertaining way to encourage editing.  20:12, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) Per COD4. 20:21, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) I like how the themes in keep with the wiki. Without them they're basically just Wikipedia rip-offs. 21:56, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 9) Per Kat. 23:10, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * 10) I'd rather have not size change, but if there is one, there is no need to change the themes. Conqueror of all Zombies 19:17, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * 11) Per my own reasoning above. Joe Copp 19:47, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * 12) If it aint broke, don't fix it. 19:59, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * 13) Per Phillycj 22:56, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

Remove themes

 * 1) The thematic templates are not immediately recognisable at first glance, often making it difficult to ascertain what needs improving. Clarity and simplicity of editing should not be sacrificed for an irrelevant image and a silly quote. Who are these templates aimed towards anyway? The reader won't understand what they're for and the editor doesn't need something fancy. --Scottie theNerd 12:45, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * But why can't the editor have a light-hearted template. What is the big issue? Can the text not be read? 14:42, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Similarly, why can't the editor have a straightforward template? I don't see the big issue. I don't particularly care either way, but if I had to choose, I'd go with a plain and simple "This article has been nominated for deletion". Templates aren't meant for decorative purposes and should be as minimalistic as possible. --Scottie theNerd 07:36, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * A few quotes to brighten up a template isn't going to hurt anyone. 06:00, May 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * They're still unnecessary and far from humorous. Being the creator of the original one-liners on these templates, the comedic value is only remotely funny the first time you see them. And since these are maintenance templates, they will be on a considerable number of articles. If the same message can be conveyed without a poor (and frequently "updated") attempt at a pun, then by all means we should simplify. 21:13, May 31, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) I see no need for as Scottie theNerd stated, "an irrelevant image and a silly quote." Get rid of them. 14:34, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yet you haven't explained why having them is bad in any way. 14:41, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
 * Equally, you haven't explained why having them is beneficial in any way. Sgt. S.S. 19:23, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * At least, it brings us some humour, and encourages us to follow the rule. This is not Wikipedia, where everything are straightforward and too much mainstream. Having them doesn't mean something bad. 03:37, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * So, you want to keep them because you think plain, functional and direct is too "mainstream", and you're amused by a quote and an image. I don't know about the "encouragement" (if anything, I have to do a double take to remember which template is which), but if this sort of aesthetic is the majority's cup of tea, then meh. I personally think "it's funny" is a piss-poor argument over cleanliness and clarity. --Scottie theNerd 03:43, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I did, it's in my support vote above... 11:48, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) The quotes and images on the templates simply don't look right, and the templates can look a bit awkward as a result. Removing the themes would make the templates look much neater. Sgt. S.S. 19:08, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Why don't they look right? 11:48, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * I told you above, I think that the quotes look corny and out of place. Sgt. S.S. 15:44, May 27, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) These have gotten way out of control since I created them, with incessant "updates" to template theme. Not only are the one-liners in an attempt to wiki-fy the quotes just plain terrible, these templates have become stickers that editors append to a page to make it look nicer. Are these templates even removed when the maintenance task is completed? Hardly is there any such discussion, and I fear that there is more done in the way of "improving" the visual style of these templates rather than heeding their intended warning/suggestion. 02:52, May 28, 2012 (UTC)

Comments

 * No, he doesn't. It's stated quite clearly in his reasoning, but he was opposing to the Keep the Themes part. Just a little bit of confusion. 14:34, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

03:48, May 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * Not sure. Maybe we will vote about it (size, color) later. 04:13, May 25, 2012 (UTC)

--Scottie theNerd 22:41, May 25, 2012 (UTC)