Forum:SOPA/PIPA blackout

On the 18th many websites including reddit, cheezburger and destructoid (other sites like facebook and wikipedia are considering it) are "going dark" in protest against SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) and PIPA (Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act aka PROTECT IP). I think that we too should "go dark" in protest of SOPA/PIPA. We can either completly blank ALL the pages or use something like the image on the right on ALL the pages. What do you all think? 17:57, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I still don't see the point when we're not some influential internet machine like Google, Reddit, 4chan etc. are. I can also imagine that Wikia just wouldn't like us to censor the entire site for a day. 18:01, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Wikia is part of wikimedia (or something idk), so if Wikipedia go along with it I'm sure Wikia won't mind. Also if we do it we'd give more info about SOPA/PIPA to even more (younger) people. 18:10, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * The only relation between wikia and wikimedia is that they're both founded by mr. begface. 18:32, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * We're about as influential as we can be right now what with MW3 still spinning in consoles and I don't see what all Wikia could do to us if we did since iirc Wikimedia opposed SOPA to begin with. Carb 0Stop Censorship 18:13, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with COD4, plus, we would have to put it on ALL the pages and then take it off ALL the pages..... 18:02, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Could be done with a bot or with Javascript. 18:04, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Javascript was what I was thinking. 18:10, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Per CoD4 and that's only 4 days away, I don't think we could really get community consensus in that time. Another issue is that it could ward off potential editors, coming to the wiki and seeing that it's blank would be pretty awkward for a new user. 18:08, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Considering the reason we would do it, I highly doubt it would "ward off" new users, it's not like we blank the website once a week. Carb 0Stop Censorship 18:13, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Warn of new users vs loose whole site to censorship. k 18:25, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * No no, that's not what I really meant (my choice of words may not have been the best). New Users will come and see a blank wiki, I'm not really sure most of them are automatically gonna think "Oh, these guys must be protesting SOPA, I'll come back later". So if we were to do this, we'd need to make our reason somewhat obvious. And I was agreeing with CoD4, we don't really have much purpose to blank out the site, so warding off users like that would just add to what the downsides would be. 18:56, January 14, 2012 (UTC)



Sorry. Just couldn't resist XD

I don't see any problem with it, we may not be a big powerhouse of info and influence like Reddit, but we still get a pretty high amount of traffic each day, more than enough to spread awareness. 18:35, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

I like this idea. For the fact that it might ward of new users, we should get this figured out as soon as possible. If we do come to an agreement, then we can make a blog telling people about it.


 * This ^ We're not just going to blank the wiki without telling anyone. 19:03, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

If enough people want this to pass, shall we literally blank ALL the pages so there is nothing on them, add the image above but leave it blanked or add the image above but still link to the page? 19:17, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Replace the content of every page with the image above. 19:56, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Well, whatever we're going to do we need to do it fast if we want to do this on Wednesday like everywhere else. 19:18, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

We can put a giant image on the sitenotice rather than having a bot go through and make a few thousand edits twice. That way all pages will appear to have been changed when in reality we only changed maybe three. Also, I support this idea. 19:21, January 14, 2012 (UTC) (Edit conflict)


 * We'd do it with .css or .js, not a bot. 19:35, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Great idea. We should do this. What do we get, like 22 million hits a day (or is it month)? Either way, that is a lot of traffic. I've heard numerous people at my school talk about our wiki before. We may not be a huge internet power house, but we still do get plenty of traffic. Conqueror of all Zombies 19:45, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Strongly disagree. There are ways we can oppose and protest against PROTECT IP and SOPA without letting the wiki's productivity grind to a halt for a day. This proposal seems like overkill to me. Sgt. S.S. 21:43, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say its overkill, but I get what your getting at, with other ways to protest. 21:49, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * oh no we can't edit the wiki for one day omg. If SOPA/PIPA passes we won't be able to edit the wiki... ever. Also how are we meant to protest another way? 21:56, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, let's see. We have a big "STOP CENSORSHIP" banner plastered across the wiki logo. Bovell made a blog urging people to oppose it. To me, that seems like a pretty good dedication to the cause, as it were. So, we can/have opposed without going "Whoa! Sorry, buddy, the wiki's on strike!" to visitors. Sgt. S.S. 22:10, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * Dedication =/= Awareness. Not every wiki user looked at the blog, everyone will have to see the blanked pages. 22:13, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * And what will that accomplish? Just because we blank the pages doesn't mean that everyone who sees them is going to rush to oppose PROTECT IP and SOPA. By doing this, we might even be creating a source of great annoyance to readers. I say, content first, everything else second. Sgt. S.S. 22:16, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * The Idea is to raise awareness, and sure maybe not everyone will rush to stop SOPA, but more people will. Its only to simulate what would happen if SOPA passed, nothing else. It's only for one day too, so I don't see where you have your problem. 22:19, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Per Sgt. S.S. and Callofduty4. 21:51, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

I support this idea, however I'm a strong believer in having a quote present on the black out screen. Now I see two choices; Either have a Call of Duty related quote (Original or edited), or have a real life quote from someone famous. 21:53, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^ I like the altered call of duty quote idea. 21:56, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

I'm working on making a javascript notice that will be popping up on every page load should we decide to do this. 21:58, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Per CoD4. Sammich Need help?  22:02, January 14, 2012 (UTC) 22:02, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Per Callofduty4 and Sandwich. 22:07, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

I think we need to make a stand! PUNCH THE CONGRESS IN THE FACE. Anyways, SOPA go f*** yourself! Dont make me pull out my Bow!  EviHard   Talk EviHard 20:20, January 15, 2012 (UTC) 

New idea
I've just had a brainwave. What if, rather than blanking all the pages, we put the image shown above on the main page only instead, maybe underneath the Site Notice? This would get the point across to any visitors, as they would see it the moment they logged on, and because it would only be on the main page (which doesn't need much regular editing anyway), it wouldn't hinder our day-to-day productivity in any way. Anyone else think this is a good idea? Sgt. S.S. 22:23, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * No. 22:25, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * N7, I need a bit more reasoning than just "no". Sgt. S.S. 22:29, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

But what about all the people that come in through linked articles and such? 22:24, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * What about them? Most visitors come to the wiki through Google searches and such, which takes them straight to the main page. We might not get the message across to every visitor, but we'd still get it across to the majority of visitors. Sgt. S.S. 22:29, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * But still, someone searching for "Extended Mags" or a weapon or character will go straight to that page and not see the message.AdvancedRookieSig2.png 22:33, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Then it isn't a blackout. 22:27, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's kind of the point... getting the message across w/o letting our productivity grind to a halt. Sgt. S.S. 22:29, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I forgot we were some factory producing life saving equipment... oh wait. <_< 22:32, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * ffs, that's not what I meant. I'm trying to get a point across here - namely, there are other ways for us to show our opposition without essentially shutting the wiki down. If we're worried about visitors coming in through linked articles, then maybe we should consider putting the image at the top of every page, not just the main page. Sgt. S.S. 22:35, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * The point i'm trying to get across (and all these websites involved) is that if SOPA passes, they will be shutdown forever. 22:40, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's one day, what is the problem with that? If it was a week i'd agree with you, but its only one day. 22:41, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * There's a URL on the image where readers can find out about that sort of thing, N7. Productivity should come first - one day with zero productivity is still one day too many. Sgt. S.S. 22:46, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

This isn't something to do a botch-job on and put a half-arsed amount of effort into. We either do it properly or we don't do it at all. 22:44, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Obama Opposing?
Obama seems to oppose SOPA http://geeks.thedailywh.at/2012/01/14/obama-opposes-sopa-of-the-day/

If this is true, Obama is hero to me.  Packers4Ever talk 22:53, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * and this is relevant to the discussion how...? Carb 0Stop Censorship 22:55, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just showing Obama could veto it. I don't know. Just wanted to break some possible news.  Packers4Ever talk 22:57, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Think of it this way, S.S.

The SOPA ruling can come really close. If SOPA is passed, what's the point of the productivity? The Wiki will be dead anyways. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to sacrifice one measly day just to inform wiki readers about the effects of SOPA. DarkMetroid567 22:54, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

^ 22:57, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

Obama has already stated that he will veto SOPA should it pass. If it does, it is highly unlikely it will garner 2/3 support in both the House and the Senate. Shotrocket6 23:04, January 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm still stuck on why this is being brought up here and not in the blog Bovell wrote. Carb 0Stop Censorship 23:05, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

For all you people that think SOPA is the end of the internet:
I nor this wiki should care. This wiki's sole purpose is to inform people about Call of Duty. If you think the state of the internet is threatened by this legislation, you can complain about it on your own website. If somebody could explain how SOPA hurts Call of Duty, then this wiki would stand against it. It doesn't matter if the wiki itself is threatened by this legislation, nor do I think it actually is. I find it to be rather selfish of us to believe we have the right to take information away from people based upon our own beliefs. 23:46, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * I... I don't even know what to say. There are so many things wrong with what you said. 00:04, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh god. Are you kidding me? DarkMetroid567 00:36, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Both of you are acting shocked because I oppose your view, yet neither of you have stated evidence as to how this hurts this wiki itself. I do not care if this censors innocently-made videos or if it makes it harder to pirate something. As an admin of this wiki I must look only at how this wiki will be affected by the legislation, and frankly I find blocking out information in opposition to something, even if wikipedia is doing it, is not in our best interest. CoD gamers want CoD info, and my job is to make sure it gets to them as easily and clearly as possible. 07:39, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * This is a violation of our rights, and we as an internet community will also oppose this, at it would oppress and censor other internet communities like ours. 00:38, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I see what you're saying, but our primary purpose is to provide information, not be a community. Frankly I don't see how this prevents us from fulfilling our purpose. 07:39, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Poketape, I see where you are coming from in the fact that SOPA will not affect us, but I think this proposal is to simply raise awareness of SOPA and PROTECT IP, not to protect our Wiki. By implementing this change for a day, it shows it to people who may not have heard of it and take action against it. In summary, it is NOT to simply protest SOPA/PROTECT IP, but to simply show how unjust these acts would be if passed. 07:47, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Now there's an argument that makes sense, but -and I don't know this for sure nor can I confirm this- I think most CoD Wiki users are relatively informed when it comes to the internet, and there has been quite a lot of talking about SOPA lately. I just don't think there are that many people to influence, and if there are, I don't think it's worth sacrificing the wiki for a day. 07:59, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Alright, I may be wrong about this, but as far as I am informed, SOPA and PIPA would, and probably will affect our wiki if passed. If I recall correctly, SOPA and PIPA would make the site be punishable, not the users, for uploading copyrighted material. There is a high chance that somewhere on the Wikia network, there is copyrighted material uploaded, and since Wikia is based in the U.S.A, Wikia would quite possibly be one of the sites taken down. That means that, yes, if SOPA and/or PIPA pass, our wiki will be directly affected, since the wiki will quite probably not exist. Once again, I may be mis-informed, but that is how I see it. 08:06, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe you're correct, but our wiki seems pretty good about the uploading of copyrighted material. While I cannot speak for the government, I believe its main focus is more on uploading movies, games, music, and books (things that generate money). I understand why Wiki users would be scared, but the only way we'd get into trouble would be through picture uploads, but we're pretty good about checking images to make sure they're licensed properly. 09:53, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * This wiki is all copyrighted material, if a company wants that material gone they would use SOPA/PIPA to get our site DNS blocked. Poketape and SS... you're just being fucking ridiculous. 14:00, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * How is this wiki all copyrighted material? 21:09, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Poketape, again I see your argument, and yes, most wiki users here are informed about SOPA, PIPA and such. However, think of all the anons here that visit our site, especially people who are just getting CoD. They may have never visited our site before and had not seen the STOP CENSORSHIP Logo we used for a while. This proposal would inform them of the acts and then, maybe, lead them to take action against it. And there are a LOT more anons that visit our site than anons. 19:33, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Per Poketape on all. Our primary concern is to provide top-notch CoD information, not to take part in some Internet-wide protest when it's not even clear what adverse effects PROTECT IP and SOPA will have on the wiki - as Poketape notes, we're pretty sound around copyrighted material, so that shouldn't be a problem for us. Sgt. S.S. 10:14, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Then you'll be pleased to hear that SOPA/PROTECT IP removes the safe harbor clause of the DMCA, allowing the entire Wikia network to be shut down thanks to the upload, or the accusation of an upload, of copyrighted content by a single user on any wiki.


 * Read the bill. Wikimedia has reason to be scared, and Wikia has even more reason. 19:36, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Moving along
Before this get's stuck in a never ending discussion, i say this goes to vote. we have to act quickly and time is of the essence. 10:06, January 15, 2012 (UTC) So:

Support

 * 10:06, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Because it's just for a day and I find public awareness of a topic such as this in a community such as ours to be important. 10:19, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) The day isn't exactly November 8th, so I can't see the harm of doing this for one day to show our support.AdvancedRookieSig2.png 10:21, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) Per chia. 10:24, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) Why not? Also, its not on 12/21/2012, so i'm fine. 11:22, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) Per Chia. It's only one day, and considering if it passes it's more than just one day, it's not that big of a sacrifice. 11:40, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) I see no reason not to do it. 12:48, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) Per me. 14:03, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) May see if the Fantendo community will also do this. Number-1-Pokemon-Fan-Eltario 14:10, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 14:38, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) I'm all in for it as long as we make sure people will know what we are doing 17:29, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) Being one of Wikia's major wikis, I think that this would be an excellent move in making more people oppose SOPA. Per Chia aswell, and everyone infact. Operation Blackout is a-fucking-go. 18:10, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 3) Per Chia. 18:23, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) Per all. I'm a lazy fuck, and I don't feel like posting my own reasons. DarkMetroid567 18:25, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 5) Per all. Conqueror of all Zombies 18:27, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 6) Per all again. SOPA and PIPA must not pass for the sake of hundreds of websites across the internet. The people who made this bill dont give two shits about the people that use it. They just want support large companies over the vast amount of people that use the internet. Qw3rty! 18:31, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 7) Supported as per all.  19:41, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) If it is against SOPA, then i'm in.20:00, January 15, 2012
 * 9) If this is against SOPA I'm in, should we go full on we can always use another wiki for chat, or an IRC channel.  20:23, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 10) Per all Rosechu 20:24, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) Content and productivity should take precedence over everything and anything else. Sgt. S.S. 10:11, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * You fundamentally misunderstand everything this forum is about. If you cared about our content you would be supporting this considering if SOPA passes, all our content would go bye-bye. 13:36, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1 day vs forever . (amg big font ftw) 14:30, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't you mean Fooreverrr!!? Sorry... 14:33, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * no ponies ty 14:36, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep it serious guys. Conqueror of all Zombies 18:31, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, if nobody can edit on the wiki for a day, we're not gaining anything, but we're also not losing anything. 17:29, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) As has been stated before, this bill is unilkely to pass. I know you are going to hate me for this, but, I agree with Poketape. Why should this website care, if this is a Call of Duty website? Also, I've seen some of the counter-arguments to these statements, and to be honest, they sound about as realistic as 9/11 conspiracy theories. Metlman Talk 18:07, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Because this Wiki will die if SOPA passes. The bill being "unilkely to pass" isn't an excuse, because it can happen. DarkMetroid567 18:23, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * PROTECT IP has 40 co-sponsors in the Senate in addition to its sponsor, Patrick Leahy (D-VT). That's already 41 senators that would support the bill in a vote, just ten shy of the 51 needed to pass. Do you really think such a widely-cosponsored bill is not going to find ten more votes? Also, if you think that this piece of legislation is not relevant to us, I suggest you read Wikimedia's blog on SOPA. Much of that is pertinent to Wikia, and by extension, sites hosted by Wikia (this wiki). 19:52, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) I honestly don't think this is going to help the situation. If it passes, it passes and if it doesn't it doesn't. Sorry if this offends you in any way. 19:44, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) As much as I don't want to see Wikia or other sites being shut down for copyright, I don't think our efforts will work. A percent of a website that is just about in the top 200 sites won't leave much of a mark. 19:49, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's poor reasoning. I don't see the effects of donating money to UNICEF or Doctors Without Borders, but I do it because I know that every little bit helps. 19:52, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 20:19, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Reason? 20:37, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) As I've stated above. And while I understand why this thing should be opposed, there is no chance the government would move to shut down Wikipedia or Wikia. The government cares about money, and that'll point them in the direction of Youtube and other sites in that area. 21:12, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Comments
What are we supposed to be voting on? A total blackout or something like a popup notice on every page load (which is what I'm currently working on)? Or are we going to vote now, and sort that stuff out later? 13:36, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * (Hits self)The popup/thing i would presume. (Seems like the easiest way to go about this) 13:39, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I would prefer to blank ALL the pages for a day instead of just a popup, but yeah we'll decide after the vote. 14:02, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Deciding what to do after the vote is probably the worst idea I've ever heard. Shotrocket6 17:56, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Blame Kat. Anyway, by deciding it after the vote that means we're definetly going to do something. ugetmebro 18:15, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Per Shotrocket, I want to know what we are doing before I vote. 18:16, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Support should be we take action, which we will have another vote on what we do. Oppose should be no action whatsoever. 18:20, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Per YR. 18:37, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Click here for an example of the popup that may be used. It should look like this for reference.

Any feedback would be useful. It will load on every page load, and can be closed by clicking the red X. It loads quickly, and closes instantly, so issues with loadtimes are non-existent. 18:41, January 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Just want to point out that if we want to use the above AND blank all pages we'd have to contact wikia. 18:44, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

What to do on the 18th
Ok so seeing as we've got quite a few supports, we need to get down to business and actually vote on what we're going to do. The 3 options we have are:


 * 1) Replace all content on every page with this image or something simmilar.
 * 2) Create a popup, like this that can be dismissed but appears on every page.
 * 3) Another idea (Let me know in the Other section)

I want to point out that this blackout will run from 8am EST to 8pm EST and will include ALL pages on the wiki (including Special:Chat). Please vote below. 20:35, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but IRC and Chat will be shut down for the day regardless of the option chosen. 21:09, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Option 1

 * 1) I think this is the way to go as it'll be more shocking to the users. Instead of just an easily ignorable pop up.  20:35, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * As, err, co-nominator I guess probs am not 20:37, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Co nominator? huh. 20:38, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Per sexy nom. This is what we must to do to show our views.AdvancedRookieSig2.png 20:38, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) Conqueror of all Zombies 20:41, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 20:42, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? 20:52, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I mean the background and the toolbars 'n' shit. 20:59, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) It'll certainly have more effect then one of those simply annoying "Community Message" type pop-ups. If information is actually needed; there is always "view page history."  21:02, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) This is the only way to get the point across. if we have it so you can just close it, not only would that be annoying, it would also be pointless.  21:05, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) It'll certainly have more effect then one of those simply annoying "Community Message" type pop-ups. If information is actually needed; there is always "view page history."  21:02, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) This is the only way to get the point across. if we have it so you can just close it, not only would that be annoying, it would also be pointless.  21:05, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Comments
Has anyone actually cleared with staff to see if we're allowed to do this? 20:55, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Xd asked and we'll get a reply on Monday. 20:57, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Are we going to be going dark for 24 hours, or 12? 21:09, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * 24 hours seems good. 21:11, January 15, 2012 (UTC)