Forum:Administrator requirements

Hi all,

This discussion is regarding the requirements to become an administrator found on the Project:Requests for Adminship page. The requirements currently state:

To qualify to be an administrator, you must meet a set of requirements.

You must
 * Have been here for at least a month.
 * Have edited at least a thousand times.
 * Be civil.
 * Have no record of serious offenses (E.g. vandalism, personal attacks).
 * Be known and trusted by others.

I propose we change these requirements. Most of these are extremely old guidelines that have not been changes in a long time.

Please post your thoughts below the line. Thank you.

Also - Please do NOT start inquiring about becoming an administrator. This is not what his page is for.

I would change the "Have been here for at least a month." and "Have edited at least a thousand times". Both of these are simply too low for an administrator. I suggest that the barrier be raised to at least 4-6 months, and the edits to at least 2000. Of course there are currently administrators who do not meet those requirements, but that's not a problem, they wont be de-sysopped or anything. The reason I am proposing changes is because there are a lot of users who think they can become administrators with negligible experience, and this is supposed to be a sort of deterrent to that as well as simple requirements. 09:08, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

When I go to about 3,100 edits on the wiki, I will put in another request for adminship in about May or June. I believe I have met up the requirements and have been involved enough in the community. And COD4, I reckon the requirements should be changed because one random user who has been on the wiki for 1 month and has had a thousand edits can't put in a request just randomly. 10:15, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * This has nothing to do with your RFA. -- Emblem-burgertown.jpg EightOhEight Talk 00:06, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah sounds good. I've been here for about 10 months (June) and growing in edits. Do you think I could become an admin at some point? I believe I'd make a good admin. (Constructive criticism welcome) 09:19, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I suppose you would, but this isn't the place for that. 09:27, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ach, sorry. *walks over into some talk room* 09:29, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it. 09:35, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

I feel that it should be changed to be here for 5 months. Also, I think we should change the editcount to 2000 or 2500. I just feel that that's just too low an editcount for an admin. The other guidelines are pretty good. 14:26, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Also, you should need 1-2 admin endorsments to even be nominated 14:26, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Also, you should need 1-2 admin endorsments to even be nominated T C   E   B 16:32, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with above, mostly, as the only problem I see is that, if the nomine-to-be is "friends" with an admin, whose to say the admin won't give support just because they're friends? Rambo362 16:48, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Edit count I feel is often irrelevant, as the quality of the edits matters much more. Someone can simply welcome 1000 users and, while that's great, it's not something that makes a user more qualified for adminship.

I think rather than focus on the "requirements" for adminship, we should draw our attention to the way users vote in the RfA's. It seems having 50 mainspace edits entitles a user at this time to vote in an RfA something like, "Support - he make good candiddate." We should have guidelines on the RfA page regarding how users are permitted to vote, much like the Runescape Wiki has. 17:39, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * I do think the Runescape Wiki's ideology on the subject is quite good. Also, if you check the RFA page at the moment, there is a nomination that was started by a user with a small edit count. I would make it so either only administrators can nominate others, or only administrators and a trusted league of editors can. Of course users may nominate themselves, but otherwise the nomination must be carried out as I stated. I think the whole RFA process should be much more formal and well-thought out. At the moment it's too slap-dash and informal for such an important process. Look at it this way - we vote the same way to elect a new bureaucrat as we do to delete an article... 21:29, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

With what you said CoD4, regarding admins/trusted editors being the only ones able to nominate, would people be allowed to nominate themselves? Nevermind, I missed that part. I'm an idoit. Sactage  Talk  21:51, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea for trusted editors can nominate, but they would have to be proffessional, not nominating someone because they are friends. --  Gen. Ex    T  C   E 21:55, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

I fully support a more strict set of requirements, as well as a more rigorous standard for those supporting or opposing; it would be great to come up with a quantifiable list of requirements that accounts for someone who actively participates in the community, not just someone who edits a lot - that's important, but I don't believe that's the end-all-be-all of adminship. --  Griever0311   22:25, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there is too much of an issue here because people who post frivolous or premature RFAs never get them passed, but I suppose that we should change them to better reflect the "actual" requirements for adminship.
 * Have been here for at least 4 months (I think that is plenty of time for a good user to prove himself if they can actually manage to accrue enough good edits in the time frame)
 * Have at least 2000 edits
 * Conduct yourself in a professional/respectable/dignified/serious/intelligent manner
 * Have no record of serious offenses
 * Be active within the community
 * Fix and report vandalism, participate in important community discussion like RFAs, UOtM, and policy discussion

This is a very rough list, but those are basically my thoughts. Imrlybord7 22:32, April 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, but I definitely agree that we need stricter standards for voting. I think that the required edit count should be total edits, not just mainspace, and it should be at least 150. And people should offer better explanations behind their votes (unless they are just saying per Blahblah, which is fine). Imrlybord7 22:35, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

I agree compleatly with Bord, but i think we should lower the number of edits needed to 1,500 with 400 main.T C   E   B 22:36, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Per Bord except on one thing - I think that there should be a large mainspace edit count. Those edits matter the most to me. Corporal Juan José Rodriguez Reportin' fo

I concur with Bord, with the exception of the addition of So that there's no chance that a user could suck up and get all the new users (that meet the voting requirements) to like said user, and win the RfA in that manner, though that is unlikely, but also so that a user knows when the RfA is hopeless before it's overwhelmingly shot down. I also think that the second of the administrator should overrule a lack of meeting a single requirement. ie if a user has shown to be great, making plenty of good edits on the mainspace, and getting quite involved in community discussions, but is not quite at 2000 total (say.. 1900 for the sake of this) the administrator should be able to allow for that RfA to be voted upon. Exceptions, I believe, should be made. One example is "Have no record of serious offenses", how do we define those? because I know of at least one administrator that has been blocked, and one that began as a troll, but are both are now some of the most respected Admins. Thanks for listening guys.  Darthkenobi0 Talk 00:19, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Have a second of the nomination by at least one administrator.

I actually think 1000 edits is enough. Taking editcount into consideration is flawed anyway as people can make crappy edits or blog posts. I do agree that the length of time to be here needs to be lengthened. I would say around 4 months is fine.  Poketape Talk  03:30, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

The 2000-edit proposal is seriously flawed. I've posted in the RfA talk page about what value an edit really has, and it was raised in Darthkenobi's thread about Administrators. What is an edit? It's just a click of a button that increases an arbitrary number on your user page. You could fix a single typo or write an entire article, and that's still one edit. As with the current situation, once all games have been covered, there's very little to edit. Most everyday edits are in minor fixes and vandalism reverts; and until COD7 comes out there won't be any significant surge in mainspace edits. Most users with high edit counts have the majority of their edits on blog space, forum space or user talk space -- often paging each other about things that would probably be more suited to an off-wiki channel. There's really no way for a user to accumulate 2000 edits without exploiting multiple bad edits or flooding blog posts. If anything, the edit requirement should be removed, as it serves nothing other than to hold back experienced editors from requesting adminship. A candidate should be judged on their contributions and how they interact with the community; not by the number of edits they have. The onus is on the nominator to provide a thorough write-up for the RfA, and for voters to press serious questions to the candidate. Truthfully, the votes themselves don't have to be comprehensive -- there's nothing wrong with a user supporting a vote without anything other than agreeing with the comments and nomination. --Scottie theNerd 10:49, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, in response to JJR's comments about mainspace edits: even they don't matter. Again, it's the quality of the edit, not the quantity. A user can raise topics of concern on talk pages and the War Room, but they don't go towards mainspace edits; whereas someone who fixes a typo will jack up their mainspace. We really can't measure a candidate's worth by how many times they hit the Save page button on a mainspace article, and it would be a mistake for us to rely on things like Editcount over actual scrutiny of applications and nominations. --Scottie theNerd 10:54, April 27, 2010
 * I agree with Scottie, there are a lot of users who have amased a high edit count simply be editing blogs and being social GenCain sig.jpg T  C  E   B 11:04, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with what Scottie said, experienced users shouldn't be held back by an edit requirement. The quality of edits and commitment are what matters most. Richtofen.jpg Doc.   Richtofen  15:32, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

But why do all these guidelines have to be so rigid. I think we shouldn't make andminship something that if you get enough mainspace edits you become an admin. We need to have proper judgement over these things, which is why I like the 'Must be active in discussions and have positive effect on community' rules. 15:42, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, interesting. Well lets look at it this way: One of the problems about this is the mainspace edits. Many smart, responsable wikians who all help keep this wiki running have under 1,000 edits. With the revised idea of actually increasing this, this would put many members aspiring to be administrators at a great disadvantage. I for example, only have around 550, so that would make it even harder for me, and I would regard myself as a half decent editor who might one day make a decent admin. Say Scottie would want to be an admin, this would put him in the 0-1500 bracket. This policy already goes against COD:AEAE, and lowering the height of the bar would be going towards the idea that the editors who spend more time on this wiki with edits of 1.500+ on this wiki, but perhaps only 2,000 overall, are superior to those who might only have 1,000 on this wiki, but perhaps over 5,000 over all wikis. Furthermore, many mainspace edits can be of poor quality and infact unconstructive and seen as vandalism, and can be done under the title of edit whoring for extra mainspace edits. The user should be known for quality edits that are both constructive and benificial to the wiki. Secondly, the 3 months policy. Although this may make sence, put it into the same pretense of the first point. I've been on WoWWiki for a VERY long time, since November 2008, yet if I just jumped onto this wiki about 2 months ago, with the required mainspace edits now, I still wouldn't be allowed adminship, even if I was extremely experianced. I would be in favour of keeping this rule, however if the user could prove that they have been on another wiki for a longer period of time, with required mainspace edits, they could apply for this one, however they must also be able to prove they are active on this one. Now onto the block rule. Bord I'm terribly sorry about this, but you're an excellent example. Bord was banned for several flame wars. What did he, do, did he wait a month and do a Peter Griffen Boy? No. Instead, he took the ban on board, worked on what was wrong, and fixed it. Now he is easily one of the most active and trustworthy admins on perhaps any wiki, and is a brilliant success story. We can't hold grudges on things like this, maybe perhaps if it was like Peter Griffen Boy after his 2nd ban immediatly applying for adminship, but otherwise we can't. We are human beings, not fallen gods who destroyed whole cities. I myself have had a 2 hour ban, does that mean I can't become an administrator? I hope not, most of you know why that was. So, this is my redraft for it, I borrowed a few points from Bord because, well, they're good: So there's my opinion in this. Smuff 16:36, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * User must have at least 1000 mainspace edits. Peter Griffen Boy had that but a LOT of those where rubbish and poorly done.
 * User must be here for at least 3 months. Many wikians have been on other wikis for a MUCH longer time. 
 * Be civil. Ok, agreeable.
 * Have no record of serious offenses (E.g. vandalism, personal attacks). A lot of people who have been banned have managed to clean up there act.
 * Be known and trusted by others. Like being civil, that is agreeable, but not necessarily a full necessity.
 * Users must have at least 1,000 edits, 500 of which must be quality mainspace edits. However, if the user can prove they have high amounts of edits on other wikis, they can ask an administrator to check. The user must however, also be known for constructive edits on this wiki also.
 * Users must have been here for 4 months at least, however, like above, if they can prove they have been on other wikis for a notable time aswell, they may continue their RfA.
 * Users must be civil and level headed, and be able to show they are intellegant and capable of dealing with vandals and flame wars in a dignified and honorable way.
 * Users must have no recent severe blocks within the past 3 months. Users with a recent history of flaming, vandalism, not being constructive to other users and being blocked are not elegable for an RfA.
 * Users must have showable proof of at least 40 accounts of reverting vandalism, helping other wikians or flagging unneeded and unwanted articles for deletion.
 * Users should be well known and active in talk pages, mainspace articles and important community issues. Blogs however, are not necessary.
 * If a user can get a commendation from a high ranking administrator, with witnesses, from another wiki, that can be thrown into the ring, however it cnnot be used as an automatic passport to adminship.


 * If you look at my block log you will see I clawed my way up from the darkest depths of block-land and into the administrator country. If someone can prove that they can clean up their act, it must say something, right? 17:14, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Adminship is not a rank. 01:51, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

If people still want a requirement for the number of edits, it really needs to follow an ignore all rules clause. At least one of our admins, Creepydude, was made a sysop with 1,100 edits, but he was without a doubt extremely helpful to the wiki while he was active. Edit count more often than not will prevent experienced editors from entering the RFA process to begin with. It's arbitrary; there's not a specific number of edits that will grant someone wisdom.

In addition, as I mentioned earlier about voting in RFA's, explanations should be provided for both the nomination and the votes. Even just a couple sentences to provide a little insight helps as it will get discussion rolling. Someone who supports an RFA under the notion that "he deserves it" without providing any reasons as to why makes the whole process look more like a popularity contest. It is not as flawed at UotM voting, but we're handing out administrative powers here, and they have been abused before. 21:22, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

When you say it needs to follow an ignore all rules clause, what do you mean? And what do you mean edit count prevents expierenced editors from entering the rfa process?  Sactage  Talk  21:26, April 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * What I am saying is if everyone is adamant about keeping a number of edits requirement, it should be looked at as more of a guideline rather than a specific rule. The ignore all rules clause I mentioned would mean if a truly outstanding editor came along that did not meet the "requirement," it would be disregarded, as it would be preventing them from submitting an RFA to begin with. An example would be Creepydude, whom I mentioned; he would not have been able to submit an RFA back when he did if the "requirements" were as we are proposing. This is why I feel edit count is arbitrary, as it does not gauge one's competence for adminship very effectively. 22:16, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter who submits an RfA, it matters who the nominee is. Requiring that sysop(s) support a nomination is about as identical as it will get to just having them require to accept or reject nominations before they go 'public', which makes us an oligarchy and I hate oligarchies.

Adminship is simply a set of tools given to users who won't screw us over with them. The rules were put there in the first place to give new users, which at the time included nearly every single person, an nidea of what it would take to become an administrator and it's not just something given out to everyone and their brother. The community has since matured, and a lot of people seem to think that this means that we should up the requirements that were intentionally vague in the first place and treat them as an unavoidable law. The concept of IAR applies here and always should—if someone would normally be ruled out because they don't meat a requirement, if they are up to the task and they get community consensus then they would the flag, barring something else catastrophic happens concurrently. It has happened before where users, myself included, turn a blind eye on a user who doesn't meet an RfA requirement and they end up getting passed because the community thinks that they would still make a good admin.

Disqualifying someone because they don't meet one of the requirements, if anything, is self-destructive. If they really aren't trustworthy or whatever to be a sysop, then the RfA would either be shot down or just end in a negative fashion and there would be nothing to worry about.

I honestly think doubling [or even increasing] the requirement for 1,000 edits that is already in place would do more damage than good. The requirement for a set amount of time, in my opinion, should also not be increased, but rather just plain removed. As brought up earlier, someone could very well have previous experience elsewhere and then this rule, also, is only self-destructive. Again, if someone is not a good candidate for the powers, then the community should realize that and it should result accordingly.

I have trust in the community to be able to make decisions on their own without having some imposing rule over their shoulder to rule out perfectly good candidates. If we're going to make any exception to a rule then the rule doesn't do a good job at being a rule, the people who have the rule listed are idiots, or the rule should become either a guideline or something that is no longer a rule. 01:51, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Taking into consideration everything that has been said in this Discussion, yes everything, I have come to the following conclusion. Adminship is, as has been stated and always will be stated, a set of tools given to users that the community decides have shown the responsibility to use those tools, both effectively, and to the extent that it would benefit the wiki. Having restated that, I myself, believe that, as with the pirate's code in Pirates of the Caribbean, most of the "rules" for the submission of an RfA, should truly be suggestions. I advocate that we keep the edit count rule, however that we remove any definitive quantity from it, I will clarify a bit later. Going along with all of this controversy about experience on the wiki, I believe that any user who wishes to submit an RfA, must have at least shown him- or herself to be an active, constructive contributor on our wiki, however, and this applies as well to edit count, that user's contributions on other wikis should also be taken into account, not as a deal maker or breaker, but as a factor to be considered by voters. I also believe that any candidate for sysop powers should also be screened, with exceptions of course, in part by their history of activity in discussions, anti-vandal work, things generally considered "community service".

There are, however, two things I believe should be taken into full account for the legitimacy of an RfA, the user must be respectable and likable, and the user must be able to use proper english (ie, no internet speech). But, of course, no RfA would get passed if those two were not met, therefore my argument in regards with those two points is null. Again, I am just restating the obvious.

After rethinking, and for quite a while, pondering this subject, I have come to a conclusive decision about what I believe we should do. I believe we should reduce all restrictions to guidelines, with the exception of respectability (this would disqualify any repeat infractors of our policies) and ability to spell. Taking all of these guidelines into account, no user who was not suited for adminship would get elected.

In response to edit counts: I myself have a large number of edits, quite a few mainspace, most of those are anti-vandalism, or reversions of bad edits. Just because I'm not making independently significant edits, does not make my overall contributions insignificant. Yes I have, what some might call, a massive amount of edits in blogs and talk pages, I chat a lot, is that wrong? I've become friends with quite a few users by chatting, and gotten the respect of a few (I hope). I'm not trying to get elected, I'm simply using myself as an example, whose case would I know better? Think about what I have said, what I have done, what every user has said, what every user has done, especially our admins, a few of whom would never have been elected under some of these proposed restrictions. Thank you for your time fellow wikians, I hope we can decide on something that benefits us all.  Darthkenobi0 Talk 04:23, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Calling a request for aminship an election implies all sorts of things that neither the screening process nor the role itself entails. 04:37, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aye, we need to use the correct terminology. Neither RfA nor UotM are elections. --Scottie theNerd 10:36, April 28, 2010 (UTC
 * I propse a vote for what "Rules" are included for the submition of an RFA. And Darth I think your P.O.C analogy was a great one. GenCain sig.jpg T  C  E  <font color="Crimson"> B 10:43, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I called a vote an election, generalized a bit, sue me, you guys know what I mean. air-force-logo.jpg Darthkenobi0 Talk 22:42, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I say we need to vote on something SOON. We have been discussing the question for to long! Gold ChopperGunner.jpg COL Crockett  Anim-tactical-nukeemblem2.gif 23:18, April 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I say we need to vote on something SOON. We have been discussing the question for to long! Gold ChopperGunner.jpg COL Crockett  Anim-tactical-nukeemblem2.gif 23:18, April 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Have been here for at least a month. A month is little bit low in my opinion, I'd say 2-3 months at the very least to get acquainted with the community and our policies.
 * Have edited at least a thousand times. Honestly, I think quantity is a poor representation of an editor's value to the wiki. Having a minimum edit count just encourages people to find ways to bloat their edit count, we should be looking at quality, not quantity
 * Be civil. A given, admins should always be able to keep a cool head.
 * Have no record of serious offenses (E.g. vandalism, personal attacks). Another given, nothing really to say about this one, except maybe that the user should be


 * given a chance if they've managed to honestly clean up their act, and have had a clean record for a VERY long time.
 * Be known and trusted by others. Of course

--WouldYouKindly 23:40, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

We need to take a vote NOW! We should come up with some rules and take a vote. If a rule passes, Great! The that is a new rule. If not the we come up with something else and take a vote. COL Crockett  00:17, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Relax. We've been discussing this for...four days? This isn't urgent and certainly should not be rushed. Regarding modifying the current guidelines -- we need to really emphasise what an admin is expected to do (e.g. handing out blocks, taking part in policymaking and discussions, dealing with user grievances, etc.) and form our rules and guidelines around what an admin does rather than who the candidate is. As I've said before, good editors don't necessarily make good admins, and the guidelines should clear distinguish between someone who contributes to the community and someone who hits the edit button a thousand times. --Scottie theNerd 07:11, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

New Requirements Draft
This section will be for a new draft of the requirements for Administrators, please do not revise the draft until you have the consensus of the active members in this discussion.