Forum:About Forum: Deleting Country articles

Now, we all remember this forum, right? I read over the whole forum, and I thought os something: If we have forums like that one, then why do we have articles on Paris? Paris is merely a setting, so why is it still an article?

This seems to overturn the point on why the old forum was passed in the first place: deletimg countries that have no significance outside of being merely a setting and having enemy factions. In fact, why do we even have articles on countries in the first place on this wiki? Like they said in the forum, people are more than capable of looking it up om Wikipedia.

So, what do we do? Do we overrule the old forum, or simply re-define it? 03:26, May 22, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion
I would say that our discussion in chat has tested that forum. I would say that there are more noteable countries than the ones we have now. We should have the right to bring them back. Most of the discussion on that forum contravenes the whole In Real Life project. Qw3rty! 03:32, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * As I was the one who initiated the motion, the context was that many country articles were relics from COD:G, when everything in the game had to have an article. The problem I identified was that users were associating characters and factions with entire countries, such as Australia being significant because a character had a flag patch; or Poland because several characters from the Polish army were represented; or Ukraine because two missions take place in one town or that a couple of snowmobiles were manufactured there. During this time, a lot of editors were strongly in favour of keeping the articles, as as the thread shows, it took a lot of effort and reasoning to make the change.
 * I'm personally all in favour of removing country articles entirely. However, it seems that the ones currently in existence are fine under COD:NOTABLE. Many of the location-based articles contain composite in-universe information that is unique to COD. --Scottie theNerd 12:15, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm currently wondering why articles such as this one even exist, if they only appear as settings in the game, and not as places of actual importance in the campaign. The existence of these articles seems to invalidate the reason the Deleting Countries forum was even made in the first place. 18:27, May 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't see why it shouldn't be deleted or, at least, put up for discussion. I don't see a thread open for Paris on COD:AFD. The existence of these articles does not invalidate the consensus; it is the other way around. The thread established a precedent for which we refer to when dealing with articles such as this one. --Scottie theNerd 13:36, May 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * As per your reasoning in the last forum, the Paris page contains nothing about Paris, only about missions and maps that take place in it. So why not delete it? Because it is noteable. France, per se, is notable because it spans an entire campagin (Call of Duty 3), we have French GIGN soldiers, What is a game without a setting? Qw3rty! 00:32, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * As per COD:NOTABLE, only countries that have a major geopolitical role have articles, and in the discussion leading up to the formation of that policy, we clarified that we should be careful how we specify and associate notability. The campaign is notable, but not the setting. The faction is notable, but not the country. As with other factions, GIGN has an article, so that gets its fair treatment of notability. The main reason why we removed country articles was because there was nothing we could write about them that wasn't already covered in real-life articles, and that they had no significant claim to notability within the COD universe. --Scottie theNerd 13:36, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

In the case of Paris a lot of things happened in the game version that couldn't be found on the wikipedia page, whilst you can find out basic things, wikipedia does not have information about the gas attacks or the collapse of the Eiffel Tower. So Paris does have some notable things happen. 14:55, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Paris itself, however, is not notable. If John Price fired a nuclear missile at my backyard, it wouldn't make my backyard (or the nuclear missile) notable. This is going back to why COD:G was removed: not everything in the game is notable nor should everything in the game have its own article. Unlike many other games, COD does not have extensive in-universe locations and lore that can be written about them. --Scottie theNerd 15:23, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's like saying the Battle of the Somme is not a notable battle of WW1 because the casualities were only bad on the first day. Stuff physically happened in Paris, the capture of Volk, the gas attacks, the collapse of the Eiffel tower, it isn't just glazed over with one dialogue line of "Paris got hit". 15:31, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Stuff "physically happened" in Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, Tunisia and Italy as well, but we got rid of all of them, because it's the stuff that's physically happening that's notable, not the location. Sgt. S.S. 18:37, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * But let's remember the events in Paris changed Paris, it's landmark was destroyed and certain pockets were contaminated. Veitnam is historical, you can look up the Vietnam war to look up ops like that, whereas the Paris we have is in the future and not in-keeping with a wikipedia search. 19:59, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Sam. You won't find "Paris was attacked by A Chemical Weapon", "Volk was captured in Paris", or "the Eiffel Tower was destroyed during the third world war" on the Wikipedia page. 21:45, May 23, 2012 (UTC)

Under COD:NOTABLE, "Events, places or people that are referred to across more than one level are covered, provided they do not consist of large amounts of real life information." Which perfectly fits locations such as Paris. Furthermore, if the Article were too come under fire for being to IRL, "Real-life articles must have some pertinence to the scope of the wiki." which Paris also fits, as it's a major setting in the Modern Warfare 3 Campaign. Under this, and because I just really don't see the point of deleting articles like this, I believe articles such as this shoudl be kept. 18:44, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * ^ Per this. It's right in the policy guys :| 20:48, May 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Which is why the forum is about redefining notability for country articles. <_< -- 00:54, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't the town or area the player is in take precedence if it's available? Joe Copp 09:25, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I've just realised, we're talking about countries pages, yet Paris is being used as an example. Paris is a city. 12:44, May 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * But France does redirect to Paris - and the Paris page also seems to be somewhat of a general representation of what happened in France throughout the series. -- 04:11, May 26, 2012 (UTC)