Forum:De-Sysoping Sp3c

I would like to start this forum off by saying that this is not due to any personal reasons.

I am starting this forum for the proposal of removing Sp3ctr3 130 Ki11er’s Administrator flags. Let me start off with the fact that even though he looks like a mature and responsible user on the wiki, quite the opposite happens on IRC. It’s not a rare sight to see someone annoyed by Sp3c’s behavior. Or get quieted. Which brings me to my next point. Sp3c has abused his powers MULTIPLE times. He comes to IRC with a bad mood, and when someone complains about it, Sp3c just complains, and the quiets them. He also doesn’t seem to understand the wiki’s policies, as seen here:

[18:35] Sp3c: Pierogi: you can't violate agf...

There also have been a few notable un-admin worthy incidents, such as

Cpl.Bohater almost being quieted for five hours for no reason.

Nikolai Cannot Die being quieted for no reason.

Cpl.Bohater AGAIN being quieted for no reason.

A Anon being blocked for 3 MONTHS for petty vandalism.

Threatening to block a user for criticizing him in a Private Message to another user.

Oh wait, but there’s more.

Sp3c tends to get people upset. What’s worse about that, is that he’ll resort to screencaps, and capture your rage and post it publicly.

In the end, it seems like it was too early for Sp3c to be receiving Administrator rights. I think that they should be revoked, but he should get another chance with them.

Thank you for your time. 00:06, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Screencaps:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/codstories/images/thumb/b/b1/Screen_shot_2011-05-31_at_9.19.11_PM.png/500px-Screen_shot_2011-05-31_at_9.19.11_PM.png

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/codstories/images/thumb/d/dd/Screen_shot_2011-06-03_at_7.12.26_PM.png/500px-Screen_shot_2011-06-03_at_7.12.26_PM.png

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/codstories/images/thumb/2/26/Screen_shot_2011-06-06_at_6.46.53_PM.png/500px-Screen_shot_2011-06-06_at_6.46.53_PM.png

Support
Sp3c did way better when he wasn't admin. Sort out things, etc. He was friendly. But as soon as he got his admin he just got.. Well he went to be like me, hateful, nasty, bad? yea.. -- 00:14, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

I have talked to Sp3c myself twice, both were attempts to help him, which I made clear. Still, after giving him some advice in the first chat, he seemed to want to cut off the conversation as fast as possible. In the 2nd conversation, I came to inform him about something, and he cut off the conversation very quickly again. Based on those 2 chats, and 2 other chatlogs, I also saw that Sp3c acts because of anger too quickly. In those situations I've seen that it is impossible to get something out of his mind. There's no way to convince him to change his mind, even if there's clearly reason to do so (maybe unless you're his friend, but as I'm not I can't say anything about that). I'm not really an active editor here, but as I had some conversations with sp3c, I wanted to give my view on this too. Oh, and what I said in the Oppose section about my view on when someone should be desysoped is also part of my vote. 01:17, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Begging me to unban someone who was given a final chance, I don't really like. I respect your opinion, but telling me "Say good bye to your internet" doesn't help either. 01:47, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was not begging, not even asking you to unban anyone, and I also didn't come to you to tell you to "Say good bye to your internet". In the first conversation I wanted to know what was going on, which did include questions like "why did you do ..., why not ...", etc. That is not "begging you to unban someone". And In the 2nd conversation, I came to tell you you should watch out for problems you might get. I warned you, tried convincing the person not to do it, and then I get such a comment as a thanks. Fine, I changed my vote to strong support, and next time I won't tell you if you might need to know something, and I'll not try to convince people not to do something when it is about you. If that's what you want, I'm fine with it. Just note that that little faith I had left in you is now gone too. 02:43, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I knew the consequences, and I didn't really need someone to 'preach to the choir.' I don't need to tell you what's going on, and if I don't want to talk about it... I don't want to talk about it. Therefore I wanted to end the conversation. I also told you who you could talk to about it, b/c I was only a small part of it. You didn't included that either... 02:57, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * No, you don't need to tell what's going on indeed, but then do not falsely accuse me of begging to unban someone afterwards. This is definetely not what I expect an administrator to do. 03:54, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the second time where you were telling me all the bad things that will happen. I didn't want to talk about it then, and I don't want to talk about it now. 06:59, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've withdrawn my vote for desysoping. I do think this should be a very clear warning that he should not do this kind of things, but just stay calm at any time, also when he has problems with others. (yes, I'm talking about his replies to me on this thread). 18:37, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sp3c is a great wiki editor, but there's one problem- ever since he became an admin, I've very rarely seen him edit the wiki. He spends a great ammount of time on IRC where he does always seem to be in a bad mood. And, by listening to other users, he seems to try and make others feel bad when he does too. In addition to quieting qeople randomly, he forgets that he quiets them. He may have helped me get ready to be an admin, but other then that, I haven't seen him keep up on one of the promises he made. CoaZ Talk  01:29, June 7, 2011 (UTC) This whole thing has just turned into a bloody affair. I think Sactage's proposal is the most fair. CoaZ Talk   03:28, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'd just like to say that I have a lot of other things going on, so I've been doing other things while on IRC, such as studying. I still edit. But I mainly edit my sigs and just code. 01:44, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have alot of things going on too, but I don't get on the wiki unless I have time. And editing your sigs isn't helping the wiki out very much. If you don't have time to edit the war room or mainspace, might not as well be on the wiki. Ireland_flag.gif  CoaZ Talk Ireland_flag.gif   01:50, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I do edit the war room, if you look at my edits, you can see that I do. I also just made an article today. The reason I'm in IRC a lot is to watch the CVN channel, but the bot has been breaking, so I can't do that. 02:00, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm in the cvn all the time, and I hardly ever see you in there... -- 02:09, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm in there all the time... 02:31, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * http://i.imgur.com/SX0S0.png mhm -- 13:12, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Note that where Sp3c is, it's not even 0700 yet. Everyone needs to sleep, and not everyone lets their computer idle while they do so. 13:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sp3c literally joins IRC, asks if anyone wants to play Xbox with him and then leaves. 15:40, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup. -- 17:22, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've only recently been doing that b/c I've been having trouble with my connection. It's solved now, so I won't have to go offline. And also, Megan, you're not in the channel, how would you know? 20:30, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * We're talking about #cvn-wikia-cod dumbnut... -- 01:33, June 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I've had to fix your sigs, so many times. -- 01:50, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes, messing up a sig is a great reason for de-sysoping someone, isn't it? Sgt. S.S. 10:41, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nah, I'm just looking at his "This user is skilled at making sigs, PMGs, and blocking people!" -- 12:42, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Change to

I personally never saw Sp3c edit unless it was a vandal, so my current thought is he was sysoped because of his broliness, his PMG's, and how him and CoD4 got along and not much else. Also, I have seen some of the stuff Bohater brought up. I don't need to say much else. --Slowrider7 01:44, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * To be fair, I mainly warn and if needed to, block vandals. That's why I'm almost always in the CVN channel.

Everyone has basically said what I wanted to say. 15:40, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Neutral
ZachHerring 03:53, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

I don't want to get involved in this. Joseph Tan l talk l edit count l contribs l 06:28, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Don't particularly care. 17:30, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

20:22, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

--Blahmarrow 00:15, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose
ZachHerring 00:20, June 7, 2011 (UTC) Removing myself from the vote. ZachHerring 03:52, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Dr.Frohman 03:16, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, but someone with bad behavior shouldn't be an admin. 00:21, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey, a new guy. Sp3c promised to do his best to keep the wikia clean and well mature, he also stated that he will be active a lot, do we see sp3c a lot? I sure don't and same doesn't his edit count too. -- 00:23, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's more serious to have someone be admin than to remove adminship. Not the other way around. If the user is using rights in a doubtful way, they shouldn't be admin. If everyone would know he would use his rights for purposes that are not what the rights are intended for, I'm fairly sure he wouldn't have passed his RfA in the first place. So, desysoping is way less serious than actually sysoping. 01:17, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well said. 01:23, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * They are both equally as serious. 08:47, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Lolno. 11:48, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * This isn't a joke, this is serious. 02:34, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Carbonite 0 06:55, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

— 07:05, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

  NCD   [Talk] 09:02, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Please tell me this is a joke. The IRC is not the wiki. Why should someone lose their sysop flags for something that happened off-wiki? Would we (example) de-op someone if we found out he was the mastermind behind the PSN hackings? It's a terrible offence, yes. But is it related to the wiki? No! As for the 3-month block thing, AFAICS, that was just a mistake. Fair enough. Mistakes happen. Everyone makes them. But again, de-sysoping someone for them is not justifiable. Please, say this whole thing was a joke. (rant over) Sgt. S.S. 15:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

-- 17:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

18:41, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Change to
 * Opposing won't get you unbanned. So don't try it. 18:09, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I opposed before you banned me. 18:19, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Cod4: COD:AGF. 11:36, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

22:28, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * IRC shouldn't be a place where people should have constant pressure. That's the problem. 11:36, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Comments
02:15, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, the thing about quieting for 5 hours. He was quieted for 15 minutes. Also, it was because he accused me of blackmail and said that I and CoD4 were 'corrupt' for telling him to stop accusing people of things which are false, as he is now. Most of this stuff is taken our of context, or is not true. 02:21, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Guys, this is exactly the behavior that shouldn't be in an administrator, Sp3c is just upset that this is happening to him, and he is talking about a day like one month ago, from a PM with a different user. Also, you were threatening me that if I would take screencaps...... it won't be good. 02:30, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * The time doesn't matter, if it doesn't matter in your thread, why shouldn't it matter in mine? Secondly, I was doing that b/c I didn't want a repeat of last time. Where you banned me on my own wiki, for deleting your blackmail pictures. 02:39, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, that PM was with you. Can you stop saying that it was a 'different' user. 02:40, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * What I also find funny is you saying "Guys". Who are you talking to? Me or everyone else? 06:51, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Here's a tip: offer ''proof. ''When you're being accused and then turn around and accuse your accuser, that doesn't help your cause. And calm down. There are some other admins thinking of de-sysoping you. You are a mature user Sp3c, just calm down. CoaZ Talk  02:56, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't have proof as I kept to my promise of not taking logs. I'm not angry. I just hate it when people manipulate things to benefit their personal disputes, like this thread. 03:00, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

I guess I'm not comprehending the gravity of this situation. From an honestly objective view I'm trying to take on this whole thing, to me it just looks like Bohater is taking his beef with Sp3c to a whole new level, trying to demonize him over petty things. About the worst that I've heard of being done by Sp3c is this quieting that is being debated over whether it lasted fifteen minutes or whether it lasted five hours. The opening line of "I would like to start this forum off by saying that this is not due to any personal reasons" can hardly be believed if the victim of essentially all of Sp3c's doings is the proposer. I'm just not seeing it—at all. You guys quarrel all the time. This looks as personal as its going to get. 03:36, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Per Chia: 4 of the six things listed involve you and the other one with NCD you got involved in, which was uncalled for. This is obviously for personal reasons. I know that you have a personal vendetta against me. And truthfully, you can't always get what you want, and doing this wont help you... at all... 04:24, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

-- 06:17, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * http://i.imgur.com/VwSyG.png Nice photoshop bro, and btw. I fixed the image income so we can use imgur. -- 10:49, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Slowrider7 17:41, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Slowrider7 17:41, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, I just permanently banned CplBohater from the IRC too just now, so yeah. 17:49, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

This Forum is about De-Synoping Sp3c. If you wanna talk about IRC powers, make a new forum.22:17, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

  NCD   [Talk] 05:51, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

New Proposal
Seeing as most of my offenses were done on IRC, how about I loose my +o for the time being. I will have to show that I can gain it back again. I would do that right now. Thanks for considering. 02:34, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

+o? You never had op, or at least i never seen you with op.02:56, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I did, a barely ever use it though... 03:00, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

To be fair, I think that only having your +o removed from the access list would be an unfit punishment. If anything, you should have +roiAtv removed, keeping only +V to show you're a sysop, or just have all of your IRC channel flags removed completely. You can still do a multitude of things using the other flags that aren't +o, +r being a notable one, which allows you to quiet users using /cs quiet #wikia-cod. That seems a fitting replacement for a full-out desysopment in this situation, as few, if any of the points brought against Sp3c have been directly on the wiki, instead being mainly on IRC. As many have said before, wiki != IRC. 03:06, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sactage's proposal makes the most sense to me. Stay an admin, but lose admin abilities in IRC. Ireland_flag.gif  CoaZ Talk Ireland_flag.gif  03:17, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree, but, I think I should be able to earn them back by showing good behavior on IRC. 03:21, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. Ireland_flag.gif  CoaZ Talk Ireland_flag.gif   03:23, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

So, Sp3c is showing behaviour that is absolutely unacceptable for an administrator to do, then he suggests he loses op status in IRC only, while almost everybody already agreed this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated, and then suddenly it all changes so much that he could get the op status back just with some good behaviour? I think you should all reconsider that administrators are those who are trusted enough to be able to handle situations good enough at all times, and not to abuse tools at any time. If Sp3c abuses tools in IRC, why would you trust him on the wiki? And Megan was also blocked indefinitely for violating UTP in IRC, which she had to appeal before the block was removed. If Megan's block is taken over to the wiki too, why wouldn't Sp3c's removal of rights be? All admins who were active in the discussion about blocking Megan agreed with blocking her, so that "wiki != IRC" is not really true, apparently. Another thing I'd like to mention is that also on the wiki Sp3c loses his cool too fast. For a completely understandable conflict between Megan and another user, Megan got an indefinite block from Sp3c, which looks very much like Sp3c just wanted Megan gone (based on chats with him too), and blocked her partially due to personal reasons. This shows that anger, hate or any other personal or IRL reasons, can take over Sp3c quite easily, not only in IRC, but also on the wiki. I think that an admin like this should not keep the tools and then improve, but have the tools removed, then improve, and if he would not do this kind of things anymore, he could run another RfA to get his adminship back. 03:54, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * You just admitted that IRC =/= Wiki, b/c Megan was unbanned b/c her offenses were IRC, and my 'supposed' offenses are IRC based. Why should it be any different for me? And, she was banned on wiki per discussion on IRC with other admins, I did not 'loose my cool'. I wish you would try to learn more about the situation before placing judgement on others. And, 5 people is hardly 'almost everybody.' Lastly, I did not abuse my power, because they were not quieted for 'no reason.' If you were to see the logs, and the complete ones', you would see that they were used properly. I must say that, my quiet of NCD was uncalled for, and I'm sorry for it. 04:03, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * In all honesty, it didn't really matter, I feel I overreacted to the situation. WaW Perk Fastreload.png  NCD   [Talk] 09:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

One last thing: I don't know how many times to say this, but I am not jealous of Sp3c. 17:52, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hm... you seem to be in my eyes. Screwing him over for your own personal satisfaction. — 20:22, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not. 20:25, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * You have set out the proposal for your personal benefit. You have a personal vendetta with Sp3c, and if you want to spark that, do it off wiki and IRC. Also, this forum is heck biased. —  20:28, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

Since when was IRC off wiki btw? 20:30, June 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Since Megan was unbanned b/c her offenses were on IRC. 20:32, June 7, 2011 (UTC)

If the voting above is regarding the full desysopment of Sp3c, what will happen if the consensus is oppose? It would seem some people believe he does need some sort of punishment, which could quite possibly be the removal of most or all of his IRC flags. If that is the case, would that be voted on in a separate forum, generated from the above votes consensus, or voted on after the above vote has run its course? 22:06, June 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can only assume it would be the above vote, since another forum would be a little redundant, in that case. Sgt. S.S. 10:51, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Support
-- 01:34, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

The most fair idea. CoaZ Talk   01:48, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Hk37 Need help? Contact me here! My edits 02:18, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

17:09, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * What am I supposed to do then? Just kick them or quiet them without warning? 20:56, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Many people like me doesn't see stop as a warning. -- 00:05, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

17:19, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

20:51, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Oppose
  NCD   [Talk] 06:23, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

— 15:53, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

Per NCD. Sgt. S.S. 20:07, June 8, 2011 (UTC)

ZachHerring 02:26, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * It'd be taken on the IRC, not directly on the wiki. There's nowhere else action could be taken. 13:08, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think he means the forum is so blatantly bias towards Bohater's views that the votes are more or less invalidated in ZachHerring's eyes. 14:48, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Correct. ZachHerring 00:10, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * It was mostly me who was being well, misused by the flags. 01:01, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * 'Misused' is hardly the term I would use... 07:55, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Per NCD. --http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/callofduty/images/thumb/f/f5/MW_Weapon_AK47_2.png/35px-MW_Weapon_AK47_2.png 07:35, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

Comments

 * Until he proves himself worthy of them. 00:18, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Who is the judge of that? 00:55, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably some 'crat. I think it'd be most likely Azuris. 01:04, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why just him? Why not someone who didn't vote, like Chia... 06:50, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Or Whisk. 13:05, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * He's not there anymore. 15:56, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Orite. 18:43, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Everyone should have his say in it. Sp3c: when you think you are ready to get the tools back, start a forum to request them back. That's the fairest way. 11:41, June 10, 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, I don't think removing his flags is the way to go. The flags seem to be a part of being an admin, so IRC is an indicator of how well Sp3c can behave. I don't think you'd allow admins who troll off-site (I'm not saying Sp3c is trolling) so why would you allow someone to troll IRC? That said, I oppose both the removal of his IRC flags and adminship. 1358 (Talk)  18:37, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then you put this in the oppose section? 20:56, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, provided he stops quieting me regularly. ;P 1358  (Talk)  20:57, June 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * How about we get the channel ops to decide as a group? Would make more sense... 18:51, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * ^. 19:06, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's let smuff, n7, tails and sactage decide :3 -- 03:37, June 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats...kinda...selective... 05:32, June 10, 2011 (UTC)