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Bootlegger (history - links - logs)Edit

I doubt any point in keeping this page now that we know it's just the Sten with a different name. The PaP name basically gives it away (Ein Sten). So unless its behavior is different from the normal Sten, it'd be better to put it back in the Sten page.

Delete Edit

Keep Edit

Pictogram voting keep Keep — although the weapon looks very similar to the sten, it still has a different name and it doesnt look completely the same. plus, we dont know anything about its statistics; it could act completely different. therefore, we should see first how it acts. maybe if it acts the same then it will be deserving of a merge. War flag of the Imperial Japanese Army RisingSun2020 Personal RisingSun2013 2000px-Flag of JSDF.svg (RisingSun's Talk Page Blog Posts Contributions) 23:42, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting keep Keep — after seeing the argument about its looks and noticing the stens higher rate of fire in advanced warfare, i think this should be kept separate. War flag of the Imperial Japanese Army RisingSun2020 Personal RisingSun2013 2000px-Flag of JSDF.svg (RisingSun's Talk Page Blog Posts Contributions) 22:47, March 2, 2016 (UTC)

Pictogram voting keep Keep — Per Rising. Kilo 141 Beta menu icon MW Ultimate94ninja talk · contribs 09:12, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting keep Keep — After reconsidering, I believe again that they should remain separated. Although the Bootlegger is primarily based on the Sten, it does have visual differences. This fact and the completely different name imply that it's just a futuristic/fictional weapon taking the clues from it (like the ICR-1 from the M27, and the KN-44 from the AK-12, etc.). Kilo 141 Beta menu icon MW Ultimate94ninja talk · contribs

Pictogram voting keep Keep — Per Rising. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 15:14, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting keep Keep — We have seperate page for the M16 and the M16A1, even though they have no visual differences except in AW. It's normal to follow the game's naming unless it is very VERY minor such as AK-47/AK47. VaultTecLogo.png Rain - Talk VaultTecLogo.png 17:39, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting keep KeepI don't see why the pages should be merged. The Bootlegger is the Bootlegger, regardless of similarities or references to the Sten. When Black Ops III comes out, I am certain that the weapon title in the map will be "Bootlegger" not "Sten - Bootlegger". SteveHeist (talk) 17:44, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting keep KeepThanks to User:The FPS guy for noticing, I'm not convinced it's the Sten but instead another British weapon called Sterling. It bears a visual resemblance but it's still distinguishable (similar to the difference between CoD4's M4A1 and M16A4), but it's named differently, and is also a different weapon in real life for all that matters. I cannot vouch for how it functions since I never played a game with the Sten, outside of BO1 where it had a tiny role and was basically a reskin of Type 100. I don't think it should be merged with Sten purely on the grounds that it is not one. -- laagone (talk)  15:57, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Split/Merge Edit

Pictogram voting merge Merge — As nominator.  QVw9GKe.pngTimelessPeople  23:37, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting merge Merge — If it is confirmed to be the Sten than the Duck Test states this should be merged; "If a weapon looks the same, functions the same, but is named differently, merge.". 18:33, November 4, 2015 (UTC)
Just as further to this and to allay a lot of the "Different name = different page" Keep votes. Many of the CoD: Online weapons have fallen under this. One example is the MG4 which is called the MAG43 in Online. 05:36, November 5, 2015 (UTC)
But, going off what Raining said, we actually have three pages for a weapon that is virtually the same across all pages, the M16, M16A1 and M16A4. And it's not like the of that weapon look all that different, they look more alike than the Sten and the Bootlegger (based off of the like, three pictures I've seen of the latter). Actually, it appears those articles are in need of merging themselves, so those might be a poor example. We should still wait until the game comes out, since it could function differently. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 06:20, November 5, 2015 (UTC)
As of so far I've not seen anything to suggest it functions massively different. And I think the M16s fell under some kind of special clause that was discussed some time back. I think a while ago there was also talk of merging the M4, M4 Carbine and M4A1 together. Part of me thinks instead of having this vote, we should put the AfM on hold until release and then begin the vote again when we have more info. 14:16, November 5, 2015 (UTC)
So I checked stuff about the Bootlegger. It's held at 45° (at least when the player isn't ADS) and the ammo in it is the same the Sten in CoD2, 3, Roads to Victory and WaW. If someone could help me with the more...difficult stuff like the RoF and Range I'd be grateful.  QVw9GKe.pngTimelessPeople 
And also, I agree with that of the weapons that are named the same and look the same. the M4A1 and the M4A1 Tech which are basically the same only one has a foregrip added (ironically, a foregrip can be put to the normal M4A1).  QVw9GKe.pngTimelessPeople 

Pictogram voting merge Merge — they pretty much act the same, so they should probably be merged. War flag of the Imperial Japanese Army RisingSun2020 Personal RisingSun2013 2000px-Flag of JSDF.svg (RisingSun's Talk Page Blog Posts Contributions) 07:36, November 15, 2015 (UTC)

Pictogram voting merge MergeI went and looked, and since CoD 2, the Sten has been functionally precise to the Bootlegger. I still think that there should be a disclaimer stating it's in-game name, something along the lines of the STG-44 WaW page: "The STG-44, for the given nomenclature in World at War..." SteveHeist (talk) 15:16 November 16, 2015 (MST [WikiText didn't want to work])

I can no longer take a vote in the matter. I just... don't know. SteveHeist (talk) 16:36, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Pictogram voting merge Merge — Yeah I agree it's pretty much the same gun, and keeping this article would be just a waste. gorillaz_2_d_icon_by_retardparade-d6avfyv.gif Super Gamer Ghost  23:07, January 5, 2016 (UTC)

Comments/Questions Edit

In regards to MLG's comment, I can't help but think it is meant to be based on the Sten due to the PaP name being "Ein Sten". Given the Sterling looks exactly like the Sten, it's not really possible to say it's closer to that one than the Sten. I mean, if it was meant to be the Sterling they could have easily made a Sterling pun instead of a Sten one. 16:09, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Barrel, stock and handle are noticeably different. (Easy comparison here.) -- laagone (talk)  16:18, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
I've looked up the Sten and Sterling. The gun has more visual matches with the Sten than the Sterling. The magazine is straight, not bent. The barrel is not completely covered by a muzzle, the bolt is different and the iron sights are different. Even the IMFDB calls it the Sten, while I'm aware they are also fan run, a place like that would ahve caught on to the use of a different gun much faster than us. 16:19, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Here are some comparison images, just for ease's sake:
I did my best to align at the barrels for the weapons. SteveHeist (talk) 16:21, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Added the Sten Mark III and the Austen for comparison purposes. SteveHeist (talk) 22:25, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
The Sterling has a completely covered Barrel by a Muzzle, the Bootlegger has a muzzle, but the barrel sticks out a bit. Most similar to a double-barrelled Sten such as this one. I've not seen a Sterling where the barrel sticks out though the muzzle. And as mentioned above, the bolt matches a Sten's bolt and not the Sterling's. 16:27, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
I see the weapon as a combination of both, as the comparisons I made above show that certain things fit the Sten better, such as the barrel and trigger, whilst others fit the Sterling better, such as the pistol grip and stock layout (stock length fits Sten better). The weapon could very likely have been built as a cosmetic combination of both weapons, as Treyarch based all of their weapons in some form or another on real life weapons. SteveHeist (talk) 16:32, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Hmh. You make good points, but I'm not entirely convinced it's the Sten, especially since the handle is still there. It almost looks like it's supposed to be a hybrid. Though considering SoE takes place before the Sterling was first made (no matter that timeline consistency in Zombies is laughable) and the PaP'd name... it's probably intended to be Sten more than Sterling but still not completely. I'll remain neutral. -- laagone (talk)  16:34, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
I also got this comparison. Figured I'd throw it in there just for some extra info. I was thinking of using the time line, but since Zombies uses 2065 weapons, it's hard to argue. 16:37, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Considering the fact that Zombies timelines are laughable at best, considering that we use chalk weapon outlines to transport weapons through time, and that the Black Ops III weapons were all based on real life weapons, most of which appear elsewhere in the series (Vesper ~= FG42, Dingo ~= MG42, MX Garand ~= M1 Garand, MR6 ~= Five-Seven [MP], M1911 [ZM], RK5 ~= B23R, etc.), stating that Treyarch took creative liberty with the implementation of designs from the Sterling and the Sten to make the Bootlegger is not terribly far fetched. The designs were very similar between the two weapons and, mainly, the muzzle and grip are the biggest flaws in what would seem like an obvious conclusion: Bootlegger ~= Sten. SteveHeist (talk) 17:01, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

The image of the Sten posted by SteveHeist and linked by laagone are that of the Sten Mk II, but the Bootlegger actually matches the Mk III, mostly evidenced by the barrel shroud, so there's no problem regarding the muzzle. There's also other points about the Bootlegger being much closer in appearance to the Sten. The diagonal assembly in front of the trigger guard seen on the Bootlegger is indeed present on the Sten, but not the Sterling. Also notice how the Sterling's length extends to the rear, past the trigger guard (and has the bolt behind it), unlike the Bootlegger and the Sten. Basically the main issue is the presence of a pistol grip, but yeah it's common for weapons in gaming to have parts of other weapons (especially in CoD Online). Though on a side note, some variants of the Sten do have a pistol grip; the grip of the Austen Mk I (Australian variant of the Sten) is the one that matches the most the Bootlegger. Kilo 141 Beta menu icon MW Ultimate94ninja talk · contribs 20:12, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Are you considering changing your vote based on that information? It seems odd for you to support keeping it separate while also presenting evidence that showcases how the weapon matches the Sten. (Also, your current vote is "Per" a comment that has been crossed out). 20:58, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
I'm changing to neutral for now; I'll check again the in-game behavior of the Bootlegger to see if I can choose to merge it or not. Kilo 141 Beta menu icon MW Ultimate94ninja talk · contribs 21:18, February 11, 2016 (UTC)
Considering the above comparison photos I made, the Austen seems to share almost all of the traits of the Bootlegger, albeit the Austen's stock is nowhere near as fancy and the Bootlegger is minus a foregrip. Therein, the Austen does not have a page in the CoDWiki, and, in fact, has never appeared in a CoD. It could be placed in the "Sten", considering the Austen is the Australian Sten, but that seems like a disservice to the Bootlegger's actual roots. SteveHeist (talk) 22:30, February 11, 2016 (UTC)

Closed - Articles will remain separate. Kilo 141 Beta menu icon MW Ultimate94ninja talk · contribs 12:52, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

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