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Pretty sure the link damuc posted prooves that it's canon... {{Sig/N7}} 09:32, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
 
Pretty sure the link damuc posted prooves that it's canon... {{Sig/N7}} 09:32, July 9, 2012 (UTC)
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'''Closed''' - Final bit of discussion resulted in this being decided as '''canon'''. The link Damac posted pretty much proves it anyway. {{Signatures/Callofduty4}} ''15:19, July 12, 2012 (UTC)''

Revision as of 15:19, July 12, 2012

Forums: Index War Room Kingfish
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Currently we have two Operation Kingfishes. Operation Kingfish and Find Makarov: Operation Kingfish. On the Shepard page we have the following paragraph:

"In 2013, Shepherd commanded the 141 in a mission codenamed "Operation Kingfish", in which he sent 141 operatives Captain John Price, Sergeant John "Soap" MacTavish, Lieutenant Simon "Ghost" Riley, Sergeant Gary "Roach" Sanderson, and Delta Force operatives "Sandman" and Derek "Frost" Westbrook to an Ultranationalist compound in Ukraine on a capture/kill mission to apprehend an individual codenamed "Kingfish", who is later revealed to be Vladimir Makarov. The mission ends in a failure, as a large attack force of Russian troops attack the task force. Most of them survive, with the apparent exception of Price, who stays behind to allow the others to escape."

After severl edit wars this section was called non-canon, however the link in the paragraph links to the canon Kingfish operation page confirmed in MW3. I am putting forward the question of the canonicity of Operation Kingfish, as it is confirmed in MW3, but the fan film is non-canon. Therefore I am question the canonicty of Kingfish as we seem to have two different versions of it, and it is causing an issue on the Shepard page. 12:21, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

Find Makarov: Operation Kingfish is non canon. While Operation Kingfish (the event) is canon. The only thing known about the event is that it was a joint Delta and TF141 mission. Iw5 cardicon soapN7 TC 12:31, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't FM:OK funded by Activision? And isn't there a clear link between that film and Operation Kingfish, considering they have the same name?  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  12:35, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but the movie itself is non-canon; the film is not an accurate representation of what happened as far as we know it. Happy Lyra Lyra(SPNKR)is the bo$$Surprised Lyra 20:24, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
No the film is pretty accurate, but it hasn't been CONFIRMED to be canon. Until then we can either vote to decide or wait until activision tells us. Iw5 cardicon soapN7 TC 20:27, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
Oh this old debate again. I can't remember why we didn't call it canon, I think it was because there was no confirmation of the film as such, but it's not outside the realms of possibility of it being canon, as I have found only one plot hole relating to it.160px 20:42, June 10, 2012 (UTC)

Per Cod4, I've never been able to understand why a Film, funded by Activision for presentation at COD:XP to build up hype for MW3, with the same name as a canon event in the series, has not been considered canon. Just because we haven't hear word either way, there is more than enough evidence pointing towards it being canon. KUDLq.png 16:17, June 11, 2012 (UTC)

Why exactly does the phrase "funded by Activision" confirm that the film is canon? It could be non-canon as well. Metroid.gif DarkMetroid567okay 19:46, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Relation to the property owning company. KUDLq.png 01:05, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
But does that necessarily mean that the media is canon? Metroid.gif DarkMetroid567okay 03:38, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Well, what difference does it make if we do call it canon? I don't see the problem with keeping it regarded as non-canon. Joe Copp 04:03, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

The video has never been specified to be canon or non canon, so we can't get a call on that. Unless someone mails Acti (which i doubt they'll answer). If you're talking about the operation itself, we would be giving misleaded info. It might be small, but it has as much importance as calling Soap's Journal non-canon too.-Diegox223 Zed's dead, baby.Personal Diegox223 Deadpool logo18:22, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

The film has never been said to be canon or non canon, so we're on a 50/50 position here. The mission IS canon though, but since the only lead of being it canon is Makarov's callsign on MW3 and the picture at the end of the campaign of the game, the actions itself on the mission were never specified.-Diegox223 Zed's dead, baby.Personal Diegox223 Deadpool logo18:22, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

Don't you see it as highly likely that the video itself is elaborating on the actions of the mission? KUDLq.png 01:11, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
That's why I said the 50/50 part. It could've been just funded by Activision, but we don't certainly know if the writers or anyone involved in the MW3 team actually gave any info to the makers.-Diegox223 Zed's dead, baby.Personal Diegox223 Deadpool logo01:13, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
Well since we have to make a call, why would we go with the less likely one? KUDLq.png 01:22, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
Idk, I wasn't saying to leave it non-canon or canon. Just let's try to base the "canonism" itself in a base.-Diegox223 Zed's dead, baby.Personal Diegox223 Deadpool logo01:36, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
As an encyclopedia - we are only supposed to call something canonical that is officially stated to be canonical by the developer/publisher. Similar to "innocent until proven guilty". As of now there is no official statement (or at least that I can find) that states that the events in the fan-made Operation Kingfish video were canon with the rest of the series; which means that now it would be easier and simpler to just say that it's fan-made and therefore not considered canon. -- 22px-1888721.png Azuristalk 03:45, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
It would be safer to call it non-canon if we don't know than to call it canon. Joe Copp 03:14, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Even i'm not sure how true we can account this for but this link indicates that the filmmakers were funded by Activision and consulted with the Modern Warfare writers to make sure the film fit into canon. I'll try and find more solid evidence that they worked with the writers, but this is a pretty good start. KUDLq.png 15:09, June 18, 2012 (UTC)

Moving forward

I propose we call the video non-canon, for lack of conformation that it is canon. We have two options here, and we can't go calling things canon that we aren't even sure are. Joe Copp 02:31, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

Link KUDLq.png 02:48, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
I've sent an email to IW as well regarding this. 07:01, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
As I said, Damac, just because Activision funded the project doesn't mean it's canon. We just don't know for sure. Joe Copp 16:13, July 2, 2012 (UTC)
"The filmmakers were also able to consult with the MW story team to make sure they had all the details right and that their movie fit into MW canon correctly."
Please read the whole link next time, it wasn't even very long. KUDLq.png 02:17, July 3, 2012 (UTC)
I'm honestly very surprised I didn't pick that up. I think because it was so short, I kinda stopped paying attention to the words near the very end, just about where that quote was. Sorry. On that, though, I think we should try to find at least one more confirmation that it's canonical. If Activision responds, that would be great. Joe Copp 01:17, July 6, 2012 (UTC)

Pretty sure the link damuc posted prooves that it's canon... Iw5 cardicon soapN7 TC 09:32, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Closed - Final bit of discussion resulted in this being decided as canon. The link Damac posted pretty much proves it anyway.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  15:19, July 12, 2012 (UTC)

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