Forum:Naming the Unnamed Middle Eastern Country

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Given we should no longer be using names with "unused" and "unknown" I am putting forward naming the Unnamed Middle Eastern Country in Call of Duty 4. Based on research from in-game quotes the country seems to match a description of Kuwait. It is a small oil-rich country bordering the Persian Gulf, as well as being led by a monarchy. Most of the other countries seem to be too big to match a description.

Crazy sam10 • Talk

09:20, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

Aye - I think it'd be better for it to have a proper name. --MLGisNot4Me ^talk 09:33, September 19, 2012 (UTC) Retracting vote. --MLGisNot4Me ^talk 08:27, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Support As MLG said, this should have a proper name, and as Sam suggests, Kuwait seems like a reasonable fit.      09:35, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

You have my Sword cwatididthar? - per all. --KλT 09:51, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

And you have my Bow Hurr - Per all. Joseph Tan ^{l talk l edit count l contribs l} 09:56, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

And my Axe

Vera ^{Talk to me.}

12:02, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

Support- couldn't make a good pun I agree with MLG, a proper name would be best. Argorrath _{おしゃべり}20:00, September 19, 2012 (UTC)

NO! You jelly? Jk support - the country is obviously Wadiya Per all. --Bats a.k.a Rarity Filly  01:10, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Support - Kuwait seems to match the description perfectly, and I also believe a proper name should be used. Redskin-26 01:17, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - The issue I would raise is that we are not playing a matching game with the developers or plot designers. Infinity Ward intentionally made the Middle Eastern country ambiguous and with little description, with a region spanning as far east as Kuwait in "Charlie Don't Surf," to as far south as Mecca in "The Bog," to as far north as Baghdad in "Shock and Awe." That spans over at least three separate Middle Eastern nations alone, and I can almost guarantee that this is by deliberate choosing of the development team.

Aside from the geographic masking of this country, we are not doing much of anything by assigning a real-world nation that may or may not correlate to the fictional one we are dealing with. As our policies on real-life information and notability allude to, we have to keep matters as in-universe as possible. This is an encyclopedia on Call of Duty, and we have to pretend as if the information we are documenting is non-fiction. If there is no source material that explicitly states that this country is Kuwait, we have no reason to assume that it is. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 01:36, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Mecca is a city, not a country, and the country it lies in, Saudi Arabia is far too big to match the description. Baghdad is also a city, found in Iraq, which does not have a monarchy. Therefore Kuwait is the only country matching all the descriptions. We may have to keep in-universe, but when there's enough facts to prove a point we can still do it. Team Metal is never confirmed in-game to have died, and given what a CoD character can survive (buildings on top of them, mortars, EMPs, etc.) we're basing that on facts we can use to prove the point. In short I'm not just listing a random Middle Eastern country so we can name it, I've done my research into it.

Crazy sam10 • Talk

12:45, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

I never indicated Mecca or Baghdad were countries, as I was using them to demonstrate the wide, ambiguous region that the setting spans.

And to continue that thought, there are instances where this country's descriptions are contradictory. For a nation that is supposed to be bordering the Persian Gulf, there is only one instance in which the pre-mission briefing video flies in on that area. A while ago, I had used these briefing videos to pinpoint geographic landmarks in order to roughly state a mission's location; "All In" takes place somewhere in the Caucus Mountains (yet "Ultimatum" in the Altay Mountains... quite a long walk for Bravo Six). I am unaware if these contributions of mine are still in the infoboxes, but that is beside the point — general geographic regions are about as specific as we can get, because once we hyperfocus on geopolitics, we lose sight of the in-universe nature of the information we are dealing with. Even then, as evident in the all-over-the-place design of the Middle Eastern setting or final missions of Call of Duty 4, a lot of this will still not make much sense.

In closing, we are not under much obligation to give this Middle Eastern country a name, especially if the source material does not give us one. For all we know, it could just as well be Qatar or the UAE (perhaps even Syria with an Al-Asad that lost his second "s"). The Modern Warfare universe is drastically different from our own, and we cannot apply our own history and politics to it unless necessitated. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 21:45, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - Per Bovell, his point is clear as a window. We are technically in violation of COD:IRL, and that it does separate from middle eastern countries at every mission. It should stay as it should. --Bats a.k.a Rarity Filly  01:51, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Strong Oppose - Per Bovell N7 TC 08:35, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - Bovell stated it perfectly. 222 ^talk 11:17, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - Per le Bovell. Smuff^{[citation provided]} 18:02, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - Per Bovell Icealien33 (talk) 18:49, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose- Even if it does match, technically it is speculation. Also per Bovell. Pierogi^Talk 20:12, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose- Per Bovell and AndImBatman. Reznov115^Talk

Strong Oppose - Last time I checked we banned this sort of speculation a while back. Also, Grandfather clause applies here for the "Unknown / Unnamed" rule. Raven's wing ^Talk20:37, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - I completely oppose what is basically speculation. DarkMetroid567^Talk 22:16, September 20, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose- Per Bovell. Argorrath _{おしゃべり}04:40, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Middle Ground

As no one wants to take the Kuwait name I'm proposing a middle ground. I'm suggesting we change the name to 'Middle Eastern Area'. This way it is still ambiguous enough to cover the country, yet doesn't specificity name somewhere. This seems like the best cause of action to get rid of the "Unnamed" and make the page sound better.

Crazy sam10 • Talk

10:06, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

Me gusta - Sounds better. --MLGisNot4Me ^talk 10:22, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

YAY! Problem solved, sounds better. --Bats a.k.a Rarity Filly  12:35, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Support - Let's do this. Joseph Tan ^{l talk l edit count l contribs l} 12:41, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Support - Does sound better. http://i.imgur.com/VwuEI.pngSXe Fiend · talkhttp://i.imgur.com/VwuEI.png 16:43, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - It's okay to removed 'unnamed', but area sounds too vague, I think it should remain country. Poketape ^Talk 19:37, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Per Poketape - "Middle Eastern Country" > "Middle Eastern Area". Redskin-26 21:44, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Oppose- Per Poketape. Argorrath _{おしゃべり}21:50, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Oh someone just do it. I'm fed up of this BB'ing.

Crazy sam10 • Talk

22:51, September 21, 2012 (UTC)

Comment - Now that I think about it, removing "unnamed" might not be helpful in the scheme of things. By calling it unnamed people know not to go looking for a name if they see it in an article. If people see "this battle took place in the middle eastern country" they might want to figure out which middle eastern country. By keeping "unnamed" we show that it is a solid fact that we don't know the name of the country and that it is impossible to find out. Poketape ^Talk 02:36, September 22, 2012 (UTC)