So, after a bit of a discussion with User:Callofduty4, I'd like to bring attention to the possible creation of a system on how to handle issues with the wiki's current administrators and/or Special:Chat moderators (or to bring up a topic on if a user should be made a moderator) in a way that allows the majority of the community to reach an agreement on any possible changes.
The page could operate as a way for any user to bring up any concerns with any adminstrators or moderators that they feel should be brought to public attention, and so the community can reach an agreement peacefully on how to handle any concerns. It would, for the most part, function as a miniature War Room, and would encourage anybody to voice their opinion/concerns on any issues.
The reason I'm bringing this up here is because the current "system" means that not everybody gets a say in who becomes a moderator on Special:Chat and has no way to bring up any issues in public without it turning into some sort of awkward situation. There's also really no place to bring up concerns with adminstrators outside of the War Room (which should only be used for major situations - such as a possible desysoping/decrating) that can be dealt with by the community (or just administrators and/or bureaucrats if need be).
To put it short: This page would function to bring up somewhat minor issues with moderators/administrators/bureaucrats so that they can be dealt with over a variously short period of time. I'm open to suggestions on what you guys think we should do as well, so feel free to say whatever you think would help. --
azuris_ 22:17, June 7, 2012 (UTC)
It would be sort of name-and-shame but since it will hardly be used anyway, that's not much of an issue. I guess it would be a good place to gather thoughts and/or complaints.22:26, June 7, 2012 (UTC)
- Per Cod4. 22:31, June 7, 2012 (UTC)
"...so the community can reach an agreement peacefully on how to handle any concerns." Pardon me, but isn't this the sort of thing we trust admins to handle? I don't see why the community should have a say in something that is supposed to be the admin team's job. Sgt. S.S. 08:51, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed isn't it that admins where chosen by the community and i such represent us. Agree with Sgt S.S saying that since the community chose the admin, shouldn't it be the teams job?09:11, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
- Except for situations where any admins are part of an issue - any "noticeboard" could be used to bring attention to any issues (such as general disruptive behavior for either an administrator or chat moderator). The page is made primarily for Administrator intervention, anyway - but it also allows any users to give input if they so please. --
azuris_14:08, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Sam, some issues which are likely to be brought up on this page are better kept away from mass community viewing. Its been proven that the more these things are in the public eye, the more arguments start. Seeing as the vast majority of issues that would be raised on this page can be resolved quickly and quietly, I don't see a massive need or use for this page. Any exceptions can have a forum, just like in the past. DrRichtofen (Talk) 10:40, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
- As Callofduty4 said, the page would hardly be used as it is meant to be a place to bring up issues involving any administrators/chat moderators and would function as a way for other administrators/bureaucrats to intervene while allow some input from the rest of the community. This also could prevent any jumping of the gun in certain disagreements that lead to questionable behavior. The page isn't for every minor issue, really, but for bringing up any semi-major issues with adminsitrators by users that can be dealt with by another administrator with community input. --
azuris_14:12, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
I'm a little confused by this, but from what I understand, it would be used as a way to address complaints/suggestions/compliments regarding users, mods, admins, and crats. But it seems this would be an "out in the open type deal". I feel an anonymous "drop box" per say would be a better system than an out in the open thing. That does leave the problem of trolls and such though. 16:35, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
- The problem of trolls is something we'd just have to deal with. The anonymous "drop box" sounds a great idea though. If we make it so everyone who visits the wiki can see, it'd lead to plenty of arguments. Conqueror of all Zombies 16:49, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
I like damac's idea of an anonymous drop box. Perhaps only the b'crats can view the "tickets" (messages), and bring in more people if needed? I think it would go badly if they were public info, as opinions are widespread in this community and it might actually start a war between supporting and opposing a user.22:57, June 8, 2012 (UTC)
A similar thing is used on wikipedia, and its basically a huge wall of shit. I think Damac's solution is the best if we were to do anything like this. 13:13, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
We can nail the trolls when they come. I like the idea and Damac's proposal would also work.15:52, June 9, 2012 (UTC)
I totally support Damac1214's idea, and deleting spam/troll messages doesn't seem like it would be much of a problem.17:27, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
A suggestion: the "anonymous" portion should only be to people who cannot access the messages; if they were wholly anonymous, a user like myself could possibly spam the messages with nonsense without repercussion. Also, how would such a system be set up?20:29, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
- Someone would probably need to program it. I could see what I could do, perhaps. -- sactage (talk) 20:34, June 10, 2012 (UTC)
Note - I've been working on a prototype for the "dropbox" - the homepage isn't made yet, but issues would be submitted here. Feel free to test it out a bit. -- sactage (talk) 13:54, June 13, 2012 (UTC)
- What kind of testing can we do? Actual problems or simply examples? 19:36, June 13, 2012 (UTC)
@Spnkr: The idea of an anonymous drop box is that it is wholly anonymous. As people have pointed out, if it were spammed by a troll, even if the troll was actually a trusted user, it is something we would have to deal with. We are looking for the real suggestions, not the trolly/spam ones. 01:08, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
I think damac's idea is a good idea. It would help our community and wiki alot with it, and it would be a nice addition to the wiki.03:19, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
Another note: My dropbox prototype that I'm currently creating is anonymous in the sense that the posting user for issues and comments is hidden to everyone aside from dropbox administrators. Currently, the system works like this: when someone posts an issue or comment, their IP and the username they provide on the form is logged. This is so that if someone does post disruptive comments, the user can be dealt with accordingly. However, only administrator accounts on the dropbox can view this information - and these accounts will not be given to every on-wiki administrator, either. I plan to limit the number of admin accounts to four or five, including myself. I'll let the community decide who else will get accounts once we settle the forum, and outline the full powers of the admin accounts then. -- sactage (talk) 18:14, June 14, 2012 (UTC)
I like Sactage's dropbox. It seems to be the best idea.03:40, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
Sact's idea sounds like the most viable plan. 07:46, June 15, 2012 (UTC)
Another another note: I decided to develop the dropbox as a MediaWiki extension instead. It can be seen here. Note that you will need an account on that wiki to see it, and it's current a work-in-progress. -- sactage (talk) 03:25, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
Having only just read this forum I can say that I'm in agreement with Sactage's idea and I think it could provide some good ideas for future changes to the wiki. Joe Copp 03:32, June 17, 2012 (UTC)
Sactage's dropbox Edit
So, after a few days of hard work, I have successfully finished my dropbox extension. It is hosted on my personal wiki off of Wikia (main page), at the page Special:IssuesBox. Here is a general rundown of how it works:
- You must have an account on the wiki to view the dropbox.
- Issues can be submitted at Special:IssuesBox/submit.
- When you post an issue, include the following:
- Issue title - A very brief of the issue, maybe a sentence at the most. (128 character limit)
- Users involved - A list of the users involved in the situation. You do not need to include your own username - note that if you do include it, it will be visible to all users. (128 character limit)
- Issue Description - A larger description of the issue, in which you should include as much information as you can. Wikitext works here - you can use tags like <span> and <small>, as well as [http://example.com external links like this]. (No character limit)
- Issues can be commented on by any logged-in user.
- Upon posting an issue or comment, your username and IP are recorded into the wiki's database - this is to prevent users from posing as others, or using sockpuppets.
- Administrator accounts on the wiki possess the "issuesbox-admin" user right - this allows them to do the following:
- View the user who has posted an issue/comment, and the IP which was used to post the issue. This is hidden to all other users.
- Hide and unhide the description of an issue, as well as the text of a comment. Currently, I do not have the hiding of issue descriptions enabled - I'll enable it if I need to. (Note that administrators will still see the text of hidden comments/issues)
- Mark issues as resolved. This prevents users from commenting on them further, and should be used once a situation has resolved.
- View the issues log (http://wiki.sactage.com/index.php/Special:Log?type=issues). This is a log of all actions on the dropbox - submissions, comments, hides/unhides, and issue resolutions.
- Administrator rights on the wiki will be given out however the community decides - through a vote, I guess.
Sounds good for now. I would like to propose that COD4 and Azuris get admin rights to start.21:25, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
Cod4 Azuris and saccy seem like a good fit for the rights. 22:48, June 18, 2012 (UTC)
Perfect. An easy-to-use and fast system. At this stage, this is probably the best we can get. Good work!01:12, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
Question: - Do you think staff would set this drop box thing on here? 02:19, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
- That is something that I would need to deal with own my own — I do know that Wikia has been very reluctant to install third-party extensions in the past, and I still need to perform tests on my extension to ensure that it is absolutely secure. In addition, there is an issue of the licencing of my code and whether or not I would be willing to release it. For now, I would rather keep it on my own wiki. -- sactage (talk) 02:45, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
- Understandable. 17:43, June 19, 2012 (UTC)
I reacently got a hand on this link that has a noticeboard on it, and what it looks like. Check it out, and maybe we can have a similar model to that. 13:17, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
- That wouldn't provide the anonymity we're trying to secure. Joe Copp 23:50, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
I think Sactage system, once it has been perfected, will suffice our needs. All we need to do is put a link on the top navigation and/or Community Messages and we're good to go. Joe Copp 23:50, June 25, 2012 (UTC)