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in: War Room

Forum:Shutting Down Special:Chat

Revision as of 08:42, 27 April 2017 by KATANAGOD (talk | contribs) (→‎Option A (Replace chat))
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Forums: Index → War Room → Shutting Down Special:Chat
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I'm going to go for it plain and simple.

What brought me here and so much other Wikians was the constantly active Special:Chat. However, What was one of the arguably most.. Fun and enjoyable additions that Wikia added has became completely stagnated. Hell, Not even URL is in the chat these days. Like it's meant to programmed to be.

So as much as it pains me to say, My proposal is simple.

Shut down Special:Chat.

This seems to be something that has been happening over most of the Wikias, Replacing them with Discord servers. I don't think we require a Discord server, The proposal is simply to put down the old gal.

Discussion

Pictogram voting support Support — Kinda hard for me to even type that. Twig (Talk) 08:58, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

What's the point? Having it up doesn't affect anything, and just because it's inactive doesn't mean it won't be used further down the line. Capt. MillerTalk 10:17, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

We'd also would also need active mods/admins then. Which we don't really have entirely. Twig (Talk) 10:35, April 11, 2017 (UTC)
I wouldn't say that's a problem, since we can already tell when someone is in the chat or not (I usually go in if someone new is on there), which basically eliminates the need for someone to be on at all times. Capt. MillerTalk 01:28, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

Pictogram voting support Support — As much as I like chat, it hasn't been really active these days. Sure, there's the occasional conversation, but it's become somewhat of an empty void of nothingness. If anything, I do like the Discord idea. Problem is, how would we tell everyone to use Discord if we went with it? Intel model BOIIRoachTheIntelCollector Talk 1:40, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

A link on the front page, a link in the header bar, heavy promotion at the start. Shouldn't be an issue. YELLOWLUCARIO TALK  20:56, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Firstly, I'd like to remind you guys that such proposals for the War Room should start with a discussion first, not directly with votes. And regarding my input, no, I'm against the idea of shutting down the chat (and that's even coming from a user who rarely uses it). Just because it has been lately in stagnation doesn't mean it will remain like this forever, and like Miller said, keeping it (be it active or not) will not have any detriment to the wiki, and it's always useful for talking about situations in private instead of bothering to go to different wikis and use public talk pages and the like. Just because the chat removal (according to what Twig said) seems to be happening on other wikis doesn't mean we have to do the same here. And even if we were to use some other wikis as examples, I can say that the chat is sometimes even more inactive there, yet the feature is still available and people still use it in good conditions when needed. Kilo 141 menu icon MW Ultimate94ninja talk · contribs 20:09, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

The example of other Wikis is meant to bring up that they are shutting down chat and moving to Discord. Not just the fact of shutting down chat. Twig (Talk) 20:33, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Pictogram voting support Support — Time to move to Discord. YELLOWLUCARIO TALK  20:55, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Remember people, voting before any discussion takes place is not a good idea as they'll be set aside and ignored once a discussion actually starts and voting is actually implemented later on.

There was also a forum about 11 months ago where this was brought up, so it's important to keep that in mind. Rather than just say that we need to drop chat and pick up Discord, please explain why we should do so and why one would fix the issues the other has. And no, chat not being used is not necessarily enough of a reason enough to drop it; blogs aren't even close to being as popular as they once were, and yet we're going to be dropping that feature any time soon. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 21:58, April 11, 2017 (UTC)

Pictogram voting support Support — Discord would allow me to contact people easier than the Special:Chat function seeing as how Discord keeps messages, and i check Discord wayyyyy more often than wiki chat and forums. Prof. Sugarcube (talk) 06:13, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

Pictogram voting question Question — What about those without Discord, and don't want to create and handle a second account?

08:21, April 12, 2017 (UTC)

Not to mention wouldn't that mean that admins and mods would have to go to an external site to moderate things too? Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 16:10, April 12, 2017 (UTC)
Think half the people aren't reading that I put " I don't think we require a Discord server". Which, Adding in a Discord can be rather annoying. Twig (Talk) 20:31, April 12, 2017 (UTC)
It was put forward as a suggestion to replace S:C. Ergo, if we did shut down chat and move to Discord I would like to know what ideas we had in place for that. 21:57, April 12, 2017 (UTC)
Give me a bit, I'll check with the RSW about it. Twig (Talk) 22:12, April 12, 2017 (
(Only took me six days.) Basically, Getting a Discord server up is rather easy, However, Getting some of the functions can be a bit on the annoying side, Primarily the bots. Bans are handled as how the chat used to work, With them being permanent. There can also be two versions of the sidebar made, One which is just a join and a different one with the amount of people. Twig (Talk) 00:54, April 18, 2017 (UTC)
As far as an external site goes for Discord, it's literally just an app you can tab into. I'm on it a lot so can moderate and stuff, it's no hassle at all, only as much as Chat, I think you can do bots in Discord too just like Chat, it's a step up. Even if we don't shut down Chat, we could do with a Discord to keep up with the times. YELLOWLUCARIO TALK  18:40, April 13, 2017 (UTC)

Pictogram voting question Question — I realize that my opinion is probably irrelevant since I haven't participated in this community in 3~4 years, but are you sure that this would promote community health for new users? New users (as if they exist) might not want to "invade" a space that is mainly comprised of the "old guard." I know I felt that way when I made my account 6 years ago and decided to use Spec:Chat instead of IRC. I don't know what the usage of the chat is on a daily/weekly basis (from the sidebar, it looks pretty dead), but migrating to a third-party website seems to me like a good way to discourage new users from participating. Personal IW FTW Awesome Face 100pxI.W. F.T.W. (talk)03:15, April 14, 2017 (UTC)

tbh nothing to even discourage, its dead as fuck. It's probably discouraging to go in there and see an empty void. KλT 08:41, April 14, 2017 (UTC)
You can embed a Discord chat and user list on to the side of a Wiki as I've seen on some wikis to make it look just like the current S:C window. So it could still be as easy to find as the normal chat system. The only hurdle would really be that Discord is still a 3rd party and would take some setting up. 13:17, April 15, 2017 (UTC)
Discord is steadily becoming mainstream, it is possible that many new users already have it. And it is also possible to see how many members a server has just like the chat's sidebar - the more the more members the more inclined a person is to join, usually. Also most people don't just leave and join a server often, specially if they have a role, which means people are more likely to not forget about it and be more active. I think Discord is superior to Fandom's chat in every way and it is a worthy replacement that has been successfully implemented by other wikis. FireBird- (talk) 15:05, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

Pictogram voting support Support — Discord is superior to Fandom's chat - it is more stable, multiple channels are easier to manege and more convenient, it is steadily becoming popular, easy to use and easy to register. It has worked for other wikis and I think it will bring some life back to the community because of reasons I already stated above. And lets be honest, anything is better than a dead chat. It's a smart replacement, in my opinion. FireBird- (talk) 15:15, April 17, 2017 (UTC)

Pictogram voting support Support — - As sad as it is to say, the chat's long dead, and it's probably going to be that way forever. Even if we attract new users, there's nowhere near enough to keep the chat active. The chat being there, empty, is inconvenient; hypothetically if there were to be a couple new users in the chat, one of them being a troll, we'd have most likely no mod there, as they expect the chat to be dead. And even though this isn't the most sound argument, t's a depressing reminder of the past for many people. The less people on there to begin with, the less likely a chance of a random user joining in, or even a regular. I know I probably wouldn't have the time to join if two others are in sitting idly as the day goes by, as I wait for a message to be sent. We can move to Discord for the users who communicate with each other, and it's more efficient as a chat itself anyways. It's a dead memory...let's just bury it already. Madnessfan34537 http://i.imgur.com/lL5xjBH.png

Pictogram voting support Support — Chat is dead. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain from making this move. The sooner this move can be made, the better, because I believe Discord to be a direct upgrade of Special:Chat due to messages not disappearing upon refreshing, ensuring troublemakers can't go undetected, among other things. Let's make it happen! Personal Didikins Shrek Onions Didikins · Talk 20:05, April 19, 2017 (UTC)

Moving on

During the time this forum came up, Soap put up an experimental discord server. Now I can move this vote now if people want, or we can test out the Discord server for a week or so more before I do.

12:52, April 20, 2017 (UTC)

I'll give it a day or two. If no one has reservations about this new server and giving a longer test period I'll start voting in a day or two. 20:07, April 21, 2017 (UTC)
I think the vote should start as soon as possible. The server's been exponentially more active than Special:Chat, and as such, extensive testing has been done by several users on the servers already. Personal Didikins Shrek Onions Didikins · Talk 13:13, April 22, 2017 (UTC)

Vote

As no one as objected I'm moving this to vote. As I can tell we have the following options: Option A is we shut down chat and replace it with the Discord server. Option B is we leave chat as is (Discord server will continue to exist, but not be affiliated with us).

Option A (Replace chat)

  1. Pictogram voting support Support — So far in our test server we've managed to get back some users that had previously left the wiki (such as TUBW) and Discord has multiple advantages over the wiki chat. Such as different rooms, ability to restrict certain rooms giving us much greater flexibility. While I am a bit offset by the fact this means users will need a Discord account to join, rthis also works in our favour by disauding trolls ( as who wants to make an account just to spam a Discord server?) and we've set it up so only verified Discord users can type messages. Roles are set up to match the Wiki, so any users currently chat mods become mods, admins become sysops and so on. Also, to anyone worried about the idea of a non-sysop being channel head Soap has already stated if this becomes our chat than he will pass ownership to myself. 12:08, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
  2. Pictogram voting support Support — Per Sam. As weird as some of you guys have turned out to be, it's been a great success and it's the way forward. I also have no issues with Soap staying owner of chat, he's very knowledgeable and should at least remain some kind of sysop. YELLOWLUCARIO TALK  12:10, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
    He's a mod for now. I don't think we can put him much higher than that for the sake of fairness (since higher is sysop, and that would still require an RfA). In future we may have Discord-only roles to do changes to the server, but that's about all I can think of. 13:51, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
  3. Pictogram voting support Support — It's nice to actually have someone to talk to now. Plus I can annoy staff if i have questions about a user/an edit, as well as other various perks i couldn't normally proceed with in the normal chat... Prof. Sugarcube (talk) 12:12, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
  4. Pictogram voting support Support — Although I'm a bit reluctant, Discord, I feel, is the better alternative. Capt. MillerTalk 15:59, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
  5. Pictogram voting support Strong Support — Well the test server has been very successful in reviving chat, from an empty chat to around 20 users. I'm confident that the number of users will increase dramatically when the Discord server becomes official and replaces the chat. As per above, it has brought back some users which left. In terms of the server, it is ready to go, everything has been setup from bots to server permissions. As Sam has stated, for those who may be concerned of me being the owner of the server, I proposed on the first day that if this becomes our chat, I will be transferring ownership to Crazy sam10. This is the way forward, so chat must be shut down and be replaced with Discord. http://i.imgur.com/RooTm3q.png Soap Shadow · Talk  17:13, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
  6. Pictogram voting support Support — Discord is the way to go. FireBird- (talk) 18:20, April 23, 2017 (UTC)
  7. Pictogram voting support Support — k KλT 08:42, April 27, 2017 (UTC)

Option B (keep current chat)

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