Forum:Streamlining user welcomes

Forums: Index → War Room → Streamlining user welcomes

In the recent changes, you can often find people that will leave a welcome message on a new user's talk page seconds after they register. Many will often use a customized template to do this.

I find that there are a few problems with this:

We have the Wikia bot for a reason.

For those of you that don't know, the Wikia bot currently welcomes all anonymous editors after their first edit. It also can be set up to welcome registered users after their own first edit, but get this, we had to disable this feature because people insisted on doing it themselves (Wikia bot has no way of knowing if a user has already been welcomed).

We're not a meet-and-greet site where our time should be spent refreshing the recent changes to see if any new users need to be welcomed. We have a bot that is able to do that job for us, and, quite frankly, should be doing that job.

"Personal" welcomes are not really personal

The argument always seems to come up that we can't have the Wikia bot take care of welcoming because the way it does things is not "personal."

The reality is that everyone who patrols the user creation log is going to welcome a new user with a template.

template (n.) - A generic model or pattern from which other objects are based or derived.

Not only is there nothing personal about using a template, but a given new user would not be able to tell which was left by a human (or care, for that matter). See for yourself: the "personal" welcome, and the Wikia bot welcome.

If the end result is the same, why are we concentrating on something a bot can do?

We don't need creative variations of the same template

That particularly applies to the welcome template. In fact, being overly artistic in a welcome template can make things more confusing to a new user. This welcome message starts out by affirming the wiki's mission is to find Makarov. Yes it's thematic, but we want to keep things simple and to the point; new users should know where to go for help if they are lost, and being cool doesn't mean anything if they can't even find the help pages.

In any case, I propose that we utilize the Wikia bot for all forms of welcoming, as "personal" welcomes are not very practical. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 19:28, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Perfect idea, we should do it, especially because user welcoming can often spams the cvn channel, as well as Recent Changes, and time spent welcoming users could be spent improving mainspace pages. User:Sactage/s.js 19:35, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Great idea, although the RC spam could be avoided if users marked their edits as minor by default. The bot is their for a reason, and all the user-made welcomes serve to do is spam the RC and, IMO "edit whore". elmo's ramblings 19:41, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

No, it couldn't, minor edits still appear in RecentChanges by default. User:Sactage/s.js 19:43, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

User:Wikia is flagged as a bot and therefore won't appear in the RC by default.      20:19, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

We know that, I was commenting on how regular users can't be hidden as such. Plus, we could always use URL for welcoming as well. User:Sactage/s.js 20:20, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

We already have the Wikia bot for automated welcoming. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 21:14, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

I know, believe me, I would hate to use URL anyway. User:Sactage/s.js 21:17, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

I think we all would. -- CakeMix^{N7 nty} 07:40, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

The Wikia bot's welcome looks straight up beast, and it'll be automatic. Why not...      20:25, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

This is the sort of thing that bots do best. I don't see why we should waste time creating and sticking up a dozen different templates that do the same thing when a bot can automatically welcome users. --Scottie theNerd 08:08, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Umm, no thank you I rather enjoy welcoming users my self when I'm not doing other things. I've been welcoming users ever since I first edited on this wiki and have no intention of stopping. I don't see what the big deal is. I always mark my edits as minor. And Sactage is correct, even though marked as minor it will still show up in the RC. Welcoming users is a privilege that I enjoy doing and even get thanked by some new users. Please don't take that away by utilizing a bot. File:20PX SIG.gif Talk 08:14, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

And BTW "WE" are not wasting our time as there are only a handful of users that actually do the welcoming around here and if it bothered the welcomers, they wouldn't do it. As long as this wiki has users that are willing and happy to do it then I say let "US" do it and all others need not bother and concentrate on the things that they like to do. This is why the User Group was created in the first place.File:20PX SIG.gif Talk 08:21, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Errr per Whisk, we're giving up our time to do it, and have been doing so for a long time. IIRC, the wikia bot was actually utilized in like December but then stopped. Plus, what will happen to the NUW? Pierogi^Talk 12:11, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Per Whiskey35, he basically said what how I feel. N7 TC 12:14, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

Well I've been placing welcome templates on new user's talk pages for about 2 years, but I'd rather have a bot do it, since it frees up time to do other things.      13:28, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

There really is no pressure to welcome new users and if you need to do other things on the wiki, feel free as the members of the User Group will welcome them. Like I said thats what the user group was created for in the first place. There are more than enough users willing to welcome new users if nobody else does it. Utilizing a bot to welcome users is taking away one of the satisfactions I get from contributing to the wiki. File:20PX SIG.gif Talk 01:11, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Personal satisfaction is not really a valid argument. We had users uploading Pimp-My-Gun images for, I guess you could say, personal satisfaction, but that doesn't mean it's practical.

Using the Wikia bot would change little if anything. It's a template (remember that user welcomes are also templates) and has a link to an admin's talk page for follow-ups or questions. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 01:36, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I have seen the bot welcome one user then stop, when there are three other un-welcomed users in the same que. I had to go on and welcome them, also I have checked the stats logs and have found countless users that were not welcomed by the bot. It would welcome one and leave the rest, then it stopped doing it altogether. Leave well enough alone. And the question of "why are "we" concentrating on something the bot can do?". Because it doesn't do it very well, if at all and like I said before no one has to concentrate on doing anything on this wiki you are free to do other things and leave it to users that are willing and able to do it. File:20PX SIG.gif Talk 02:35, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Wikia bot welcomes an anonymous editor or user after they have made their first edit. To say it's not doing it's job is unfounded; Wikia bot has over 28,000 welcomes and userpage creations since November. (we swapped out registered user welcomes with registered userpage creation in February because of edit conflicts with "personal" welcomes). Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 12:49, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Also, you claim that there is "no pressure to welcome new users," but it's suddenly a big deal if the Wikia bot doesn't do so seconds after a user registers an account. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 15:22, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I have to disagree with your contention, WHISKEY. While you and a handful of others may take pleasure in welcoming users, this is exactly the sort of thing that can and should be automated. The effect is still the same, though arguably more reliable and consistent with an automated process. We don't need the NUW group if we can automatically refer new users to the necessary resources automatically, which is done on practically every other wiki I've worked on. I don't understand the validity in disabling the bot on the basis that a few users want to do the process manually because they can. It's similar to me refusing to use templates and instead preferring to type every infobox out by hand, or fixing common typos because it takes more skill than using a bot. Nonetheless, I don't see why regular users can't do their welcomes alongside the automated bot template, if it's the individualised that you want to commit to. --Scottie theNerd 02:43, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Wikia bot disregards edit conflicts, and hence, two welcomes were often left on the talk pages of new users. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 12:49, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

- Personally, I think that bots shouldn't welcome people. New editors deserve to be welcomed personally be a user, not some bot thing that does it for us while we're off doing other stuff. It gives the wiki a better, more friendly "atmosphere," knowing that users here take the time out of their day to welcome a new user. So, no bot, all user. That's just my 2 cents, or whatever that expression is. Jar ^{making tacky jelly} 02:43, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

What is the purpose of a welcome template? First and foremost it's to provide an "induction" to new editors by giving them a rundown of expectations and standards as well as links to useful resources for editing. A bot can do that and we don't need a dozen different templates when one can suffice. However, there's nothing stopping you from being friendly by saying hi to editors new or old. --Scottie theNerd 09:28, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I've already explained that "personal" welcomes (i.e. using a template) is no more personal than the message the Wikia bot leaves. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 12:49, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I say no. Per WHISKEY35, many users enjoy welcoming users. 09:46, July 4, 2011 (UTC) —Unsigned comment was added by Reznov115

Another perspective

This has it's pro's and con's. Yes, automating it can be handy. But what about usergroups like the New User Welcomers? If this process was automated, that would signal the end to that user group. Thoughts on this?

Reznov115^Talk 09:46, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's not like we're suddenly going to have a high national unemployment rate. If a usergroup becomes defunct, what of it? --Scottie theNerd 11:59, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

It just becomes defunct, that's it. It's not a big deal and we don't need to make a big deal out of it.      12:27, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I only count 2 people out of that usergroup who currently welcome new users. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 12:49, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

*3 Pierogi^Talk 15:42, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Just to add on to this, what would new user think if they got a message from a BOT? I mean, it takes an actual User to send them a message to get them to stay. We will look like right lazy lumps if we just got a bot to do all the work for us, won't we? Besides, a user-sent message also says to them 'We know you are here. Here's the tutorial'. I just don't belive the bot makes them feel that way.Reznov115^Talk 15:48, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

How would they know it was a bot? It signs with the name of the admin who most recently edited, in case they have a questions. Also, it would avoid this: User:Sactage/s.js 15:51, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I've explained this more than enough times before: there is literally no difference between the bot leaving a message, and a user leaving a welcome template. The Wikia bot also signs the message with the signature of most recently active admin. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 15:53, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see why this should change. It's been like this for a year, why change now? Pierogi^Talk 15:55, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's efficient or practical. Bovell ^{Talk | Contrib.} 15:58, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Well if you dont like seeing that, then ignore it. Just wait till some other thing appears. Its not hard to wait till Starnes2 posts something else like an IP editing something or such. DrkDragonz66   Talk  Contribs  Combat Arms   17:08, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

What's the argument? No new user will know the difference between a bot and a human user. There is no 'feel good' feeling from leaving the message manually. You could say we should make cars by hand now, as it's more personal.File:AdvancedRookieSig2.png 16:01, July 4, 2011 (UTC)