This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Shadow Company (Original) article.
Who removed the pictures from this article? Can someone un-do it?
This, please. Someone put the pictures back.
IMO Shadow Company is NOT USSOCOM. The patch under the US flag is of a spade, and not a spear like in the USSOCOM Seal... CujoTwoOne 08:39, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
- It's very close though. Not hard to see how it can be thought of one or the other. --XavierGTR 08:17, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
Even though they don’t carry the USSOCOM insignia, that doesn’t mean they are PVCs either. Just look at their equipment (Black Hawks, Mini Birds, Pawe Lows etc), US flag patches and the fact that they are taking orders directly from a US Lt.General. IMO they are handpicked from the US military and the spade patch could also be reference to other US military unit, as there are several that use the spade in their unit insignia. Their mercenaries... simple as that.
The fact that they're using civilian cars as opposed to proper military vehicles says to me they're not USSOCOM. Maybe they're government affiliated, but I would think those armored cars are used only by mercenaries and agencies like CIA Special Activities Division. OmgHAX! 22:18, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
These transcripts may make it easier to draw conclusions. They are taken from a battlechatter sound folder, under sc/burst. I forget which IWD file I got them from.
SC1_1 - HQ_1
[Disciple Six] Oxide, this is Disciple Six, We're in the Crow's Nest two klicks north of Home Plate. We've got two Victors moving along one of our restricted perimeter roadways. Requesting permission to engage with the '50. Over.
[Oxide] Disciple Six, what's the grid on those CV's? Over.
[Disciple Six] Oxide, they're about to cross into Grid Two-Six-Niner-One-Five-Five-Four-Two-Niner and moving on road Three-Nine-Five-GPH. Over.
[Oxide] Copy that, Disciple Six. We've confirmed that the targets are moving to a restricted zone. Standby for clearance.
[Disciple Six] Roger Oxide, we're ready to rock. Just give us the word, standing by.
[Oxide] Disciple Six, you're not cleared to engage. I repeat, do not engage. Gold Eagle wants the make and model on those Charlie Victors. Over.
[Disciple Six] Uh, copy that, Oxide. We've got, uh, two black, light-brown Mercedes G-class trucks, and they look to be at least partially hardened against small-arms fire. Won't reduce the opportunity of our weapons system. Over.
[Oxide] Disciple Six, you're clear to engage. Get your SICs ready, Gold Eagle wants visual confirmation over the 'Net. We'll be sending an RQ4 on your way to slingshot the transfer. Expect it, ETA 2-2-0 Mikes.
[Disciple Six] Roger that Oxide, but there won't be much left to look at, Disciple Six engaging. Out.
SC1_8 - HQ_8
[Disciple One] Disciple One to Oxide? Come in Oxide, do you read us? Over.
[Oxide] Oxide reads you, Disciple One. We've got your signal now. Over.
[Disciple One] Oxide, we're continuing our recon sweep of the area due North of Home Plate. Maintaining visual contact with three civilians outside our perimeter inside 'Gold Dust' and North of the waterfall, how copy? Over.
[Oxide] Solid Copy, Disciple One. Stay perched in Overwatch. You're authorized to send rounds downrange if you see those civilians dropping IEDs on the roadway. Maintain readiness. Over.
[Disciple One] Roger that Oxide, we're locked and loaded. Disciple One out.
SC2_2 - SC3_2
[Disciple One] Mongoose Two, Disciple One here, how copy? Over.
[Mongoose Two] Disciple One, Mongoose Two reads you, go ahead.
[Disciple One] Mongoose Two, uh... Interrogative: Are you still assigned to Overwatch activities in MSR-Bravo? Over.
[Mongoose Two] Disciple One, Mongoose Two. Uh, that's affirmative. However, we're checking out some activity west of that zone. Break. Got a section of the ED fence out of commission over here. Over.
[Disciple One] Mongoose Two, uh, we are currently engaged in CYA operations at MSR-Bravo. Interrogative: Uh, what's your deviation timeline? Over.
[Mongoose Two] Heh. We read you, Disciple One. We're looking at about Two-Five Mikes, but we're on the hump already. Gonna owe you one.
[Disciple One] Roger that, Mongoose Two, we'll maintain readiness until visual contact is established. Now get your ass back here. Out.
SC2_4 - HQ_4
[Disciple Four] Oxide, Disciple Four here. Over.
[Oxide] Disciple Four, Oxide. Go ahead. Over.
[Disciple Four] Oxide, we're posted up at Checkpoint Pinstripe. We've got a convoy of four, that is Zero-Four, uh whitebox delivery Victors requesting clearance to approach Home Plate. Break. Requesting a secure Net channel to transmit credentials: Bandwidth Three-Five-Zero-Mike-Bravos. Non-lossy burst packets over seven Sierras. Over.
[Oxide] Solid copy, Disciple Four, standby for encryption challenge flags. Over.
[Disciple Four] Standing by, Oxide. Over.
[Oxide] Disciple Four, you're clear for data transmissions. Sector Three-Five-Zero over Seven aerial. Encryption key index: Seven-Niner-Julia-Bravo. Initiate handshake. Over.
[Disciple Four] We've confirmed your key index, Oxide. Sending it. Break. Standing by for gatekeeper authorization. Over.
[Oxide] Disciple Four, credentials have been authorized by Gold Eagle. Maintain your posture. We're sending Butcher Three to inventory and escort the convoy through to Home Plate. How copy? Over.
[Disciple Four] Roger, Oxide. Disciple Four copies all. We'll keep 'em sweating until we see Butcher Three. Out.
SC2_9 - HQ_9
[Oxide] Oxide to Disciple Two: What's your status? Over.
[Disciple Two] Disciple Two to Oxide: Uh, we have held up our sweep through RAZ-Zebra. We're about three Mikes behind schedule. Over.
[Oxide] Copy that, Disciple Two. Gold Eagle wants a reason for the delay. Over.
[Disciple Two] Oxide, we ran into a sandstorm out here. We're taking shelter in a small cave until it clears up. Over.
[Oxide] Disciple Two, your mop suit should do the job here. Get yourself suited up and resume your patrol at an accelerated pace. Over.
[Disciple Two] Roger Oxide, we're outfitting now. We'll be Oscar-Mike in five.
[Oxide] You have One-Two-Zero-Mikes to resume your patrol path, Disciple Two. You're already behind schedule. Home Plate policy for docking hazard pay remains in effect. Do you copy?
[Disciple Two] Solid copy Oxide. Uh, so if we're back early, do we get double pay?
[Oxide] Stay frosty, Disciple Two. Cut the chatter. Oxide out.
SC3_6 - HQ_6
[Disciple Three] Oxide, this is Disciple Three. How copy? Over.
[Oxide] Disciple Three, you're coming in weak over the coms. Use the backup frequency and try again. Over.
[Disciple Three] Oxide, Disciple Three here. How do you read me now? Over.
[Oxide] Oxide has you clear, go ahead. Over.
[Disciple Three] Oxide, we have intercepted a local military Victor, about seven klicks South of DRM-Zulu. We have three - that's Zero-Three - foot-mobiles in our custody, one officer and two enlisted. Please advise. over.
[Oxide] Disciple Three, local military is not authorized for travel through our perimeter. Interrogative: What's the status of the Victor? Over.
[Disciple Three] Oxide, uh, I'm not sure. Looks like a UAZ left over from the Russians. It's pretty beat up. Over.
[OXide] Disciple Three, standby for orders. Over.
[Disciple Three] Oxide, uh, our status has changed. These guys are getting aggressive. One of them went for a concealed sidearm. Now they're talking about Euros. I thinking they actually want to bribe.
[Oxide] Disciple Three, you are authorized to use lethal force if necessary. Maintain an aggressive posture as you escort them out of the zone on bearing Seven-Seven-Five by Six-Niner-Two. We'll be tracking with Avatar One. Over.
[Disciple Three] Copy that, Oxide. These guys are -- Woah, WOAH, HEY!
[Oxide] Disciple Three, do you read? Over.
[Disciple Three] Oxide, we're status: green. Three Tangos down. Had to grease 'em. Over.
[Oxide] Solid copy, Disciple Three. Tag the victor with an IR beacon. we're sending Avatar One to blast the zone. Recommit to your patrol zone within ten Mikes. Over.
[Disciple Three] Disciple Three copies. We're Oscar-Mike. Out.
HP_3 - GC_3
[Scaler Three] Scaler Three to Oxide Ground. We are in the air and ready for tasking. Over.
[Oxide Ground] Scaler Three, this is Oxide Ground. Solid copy. We're tracking you clean through Grid Seven-One-Five-Three-Eight-Niner with Net confirmation through the canyon relay.
[Scaler Three] Oxide Ground, yep. You've got us. Over.
[Oxide Ground] Scaler Three, be advised: Avatar Two is operating approximately Oh-Seven-Six klicks above you. They've got the AO blanketed. Break. Standby for new orders. Over.
[Scaler Three] Solid copy, Oxide Ground. Send it.
[Oxide Ground] Uh, Scaler Three, relocate to Grid Papa-Juliet-November. We're seeing low-grade seismic activity in the area. Go run the canyon and check it out. Over.
[Scaler Three] Roger that, Oxide Ground. We'll be in touch. Out.
[Carinval One] Oxide, this is Carnival One. We are patrolling in the waterway East of Home Plate. Looks like we've got some heat signature leakage. How copy? Over.
[Oxide] Carnival One, Oxide copies. Relay grid, over.
[Carnival One] Oxide, heat signature is located at Grid Charlie-Oscar-Delta-Mike-Whiskey Five-Four-Seven-One-Niner. Three-Three meters above the water.
[Oxide] Carnival One, we copy your grid. Send the height again. Over.
[Carnival One] Oxide, height is Three-Three meters above the water. Repeat: Three-Three meters. Over.
[Oxide] Solid copy, Carnival One. Three-Three meters. Standby for deviation orders. Over.
[Carnival One] Carnival One standing by. Over.
[Oxide] Carnival One, move to a concealed location inside your grid and unstrap your optics. we need your eyes on the thermal leak until we can verify that it's visible to Sat-Recon. Maintain readiness and keep us posted. How copy? Over.
[Carnival One] Good copy, Oxide. Carnival One out.
[Carnival Three] Oxide, Carnival Three here. We're currently verifying the new stock of Zodiak RHIBs, and we've got a problem here. Over.
[Oxide] Carnival Three, this is Oxide. Describe the nature of the problem. Over.
[Carnival Three] Uh, it looks like the strong-box was compromised in-transit, Oxide. I've got only eleven out of twenty as marked in manifest in Seven-Charlie-Alpha. Break. Two of these have significant rips to their hull and are unusable. Over.
[Oxide] Solid copy, Carnival Three. Finish your inventory and double check that all functional RHIBs are patrol-ready. How copy? Over.
[Carnival Three] Roger Oxide. ETC: Two hours. Repeat: Zero-Two Hotels. Carnival Three out.
Early "shadow company" model
Those are not early versions of shadow company men, those are meant to be Makarov's higher ups. Obviously, IW replaced them with generic ultra-nationalist character models at some point in development. They're positioned in the same spot where the ultra-nationalists would normally appear in "The Enemy of my Enemy". In one of the early trailers, the one pictured in the gallery can be seen scoring a kill on shadow company trooper. ShortRoundMcFly 19:21, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
For the record...
- A Pickup truck without an MG is not a Technical (see Technical definition).
- Shadow Company does not use MG4s and those you find in "Just Like Old Times" are not dropped by any enemies, but are just lying around. The only machine gunners you face in this level (on the catwalk) use RPDs, which they oddly will not drop when they are killed
By member USSOCOM 25/12/2009
- I find it hard to imagine that NATO-caliber machine guns were just simply laying around there when SC moved in. Ghost Leader 04:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
I agree. Come on, do you think those MG4s just appeared by magic or something? Oh, yes, that must be it. And yes, I am being sarcastic. Sgt. S.S. 20:16, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
Vinson and Lambert
When you enter the cave you can hear Shadow company talking about comm problems and stuff and one of them says he'll send Vinson and Lambert shouldn't there be a page for these guys? There's pages for pretty much every TF141 character why not some Shadow Company?
- Well, I don't remember actually seeing either of those guys, and aside from them being mentioned briefly in the comms section they aren't mentioned anywhere else. I think that some of the TF141 operators play a more important role than a couple of guys mentioned in a radio broadcast. --XavierGTR 10:27, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
Shadow Company pawns?
Where exactly did it come from that Shepherd lied to Shadow Company and Shadow Company weren't aware of Shepherd's actions? Nothing of the sort is mentioned in-game and ,TBH, it sounds to me like original research or someone's way of turning the level's bad guys into "misguided good guys". Ghost Leader 04:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
Any reason we can't play as these guys????
We already have OpFor and Spetsnaz, which are two of the three campaign bad guys. I wonder why there isn't a map where one side is either OpFor or Spetsnaz and the other is Shadow Company. Sometimes I'd rather it be those guys than TF141 or the Rangers (IE the map Afghan). --XavierGTR 11:51, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
Why the need to undo revision?
Hello, I made a minor edit to the second paragraph some time-ago that stated that Shepard appeared to not hold the lives of the Shadow Company in very high regard, from explicitly stating that he absolutely has no concern for their lives. While Shepard's ordering of a artillery strike would indicate this, one shouldn't take even this and immediately assume the worse. He does radio in to warn them, and tells them about how they served their country well (whether he was earnest about it or not, we don't really don't know). He may have genuinely believed that those soldiers were dead anyway with Soap and Price shooting through their base and all, and that this was the only way to 'contain' them. This kinda ambiguity is why we should keep from making such concrete statements without hard evidence to back it up. That being said, I may have missed something, and if so please correct me, but from where I stand I don't think it was the right thing to do. -- 11:26 , Febuary 29, 2010. (EST)
They're one of the SC units, sometimes mentioned over radio chatter. Sgt. S.S. 20:18, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
- Carnival is one of the gound units in Shadow Company along side Butcher and Disciple (B,C,D). Men from Carnival can be heard on the un-subtitled radio traffic in the missions The enemy of my enemy and Just like old times.
I would like to point out that this isnt the only faction that isn't in multiplayer. there is CIA and FSB as well, or at least just CIA Sniper Luigi 15:13, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
- The CIA isn't a faction per se in the game, since Allen is the only CIA agent ever mentioned or shown. Presumably there are others working with 141, but they don't seem to play any part in the game. Ghost Leader 05:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
Hello, I have a question. Whenever I make legitamate edits, and sometimes even things I have seen with my own eyes in the game, someone keeps deleting what I am posting? For instance I said something about how some of Shadow Company could have been the surviving Marines from Al-Asads nuke, and how Juggenauts have been rarley know to carry RPDs (They do sometimes!) and aparently some disgruntled editior (no offense) keeps deleting it when I have seen much dumber claims on this site than those two statements I made. Help?
- As you stated above, "I said something about how some of Shadow Company could have been the surviving Marines from Al-Asads nuke..." In this Wiki, we don't allow speculation, there's no proof that they are survivors. And why are you talking about Juggernauts on a Shadow Company page?! Also, sign your posts.
- First of All, no one could have survived the crazy desert eagle guy's nuke. Second, why does it matter whether juggernauts carry RPDs, M240s, MG4s, L86s, or whatever? Kingtiger13123 (talk) 12:44, August 19, 2012 (UTC)
Lol I guess I should read the rules better, I apologize.Kingfanboi 16:28, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
Betraying their country?
Where does it say anywhere that Shadow Company betrayed their country? They were probably just an elite division of the U.S. military that Shepherd requested with his blank check. Basically they were probably just doing their orders. I mean Shepherd probably lied to them and told them that he had orders to kil TF-141.Kingfanboi 20:51, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
- It appears that Shadow Company is a private military company as they are called "Tangos" by Price. The word, "Tango," refers to non-government associates or terrorists. For example, the Ultranationalists are "tangos" as it's a separate organization and operates independently from the government. - Kenny99 05:17, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
- Here's my 2 cents
- Well as far as Price is concerned the whole U.S. military could be considered a Tango. Most of TF-141 seemed to be from the UK with a few Americans mixed in. Couple that with the fact that most countries (Even America's west-European Allies.) have been upset with America because the Invasion of Iraq, and the fact it would be easier to use real troops with the blank check, as I said Shepherd could have lied to them. (History is filled with liars.) It is ironic when you think about it, since Shepherd is basically a U.S. version of Zakhaev/Makarov. Its kind of a subliminal Anti-U.S. involment in the Middle-East message when you think about it. A little of topic, but at the beginning off the game U.S. troops are hooting and hollaring with joy about the destroyed terroirist building saying: "It was like an action movie dude!!!" After one said: "Isn't this a little dangerous for the task force?" "Another laughed: "Ah since when does Shepherd care about danger close." Fast forward a few days and a whole company of U.S. troops are hit by Shepherds "accidental" friendly-fire. Price mumers with dismay: "Since when does Shepherd care about danger close?" Not laughing now! But I digress way of topic. Bottom line makes more since to be official U.S. troops considering they were in a U.S. base, and that they used top off the line equipment, clothing, and viehcles. (Save the technicals, which was propably a error in programing, since Makrov's men were using U.S. Humvees.) Kingfanboi 21:26, September 14, 2010 (UTC)
A couple of things.
One, do they not use any sniper rifles at all? There aren't any listed in the weapons section.
Second, regarding one particular trivia bit, how does one tell whether someone's grunting with a Russian accent? Perhaps I should delete this.
Oorah!: Thomp .45 14:31, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
They use the WA2000, if thats what you are asking. A Lonely Nomad 14:36, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
here's what i think shadow company is
a PMC that sheperd took over earlier
is probaly is a special divsion of the miltary that sheperd,with the power of his blank check sent to the boneyard
to kill Opfor
Does anyone else think this is a reference to the Private Military Contractor Blackwater? The are hired both hired by a powerful figure (Bush, Shepherd) and they both have a bit of controversy around them. Cpt. Dragunov 07:41, January 14, 2011 (UTC)
Sure, but everybody knows that Blackwater exist, whereas I doubt the public has any information pertaining to an elite black-ops group that regularly executes treason in the name of the General of a large percentage of the American Armed Forces. Best leave it out of the trivia for now. Captain tweed 14:37, February 19, 2011 (UTC)
I doubt that SC is a PMC. Just saying01:50, March 25, 2011 (UTC)
What happened to them? Were they disbanded or something?
who would of liked shadow company instead of miltai in mutliplayer
Would be nice, but they don't have any specific enemy like the other factions.
Ruler Of The Wastes 04:53, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
Lethal Weapon reference
Could Shadow Company be a reference to Lethal Weapon. At the beginning of the movie, Murtagh is talking to his Vietnam War friend when investigating his (Michael Hunsaker's) daughter's suicide. Hunsaker mention he was part of a mercenary team called Shadow Company. Might be a bit of a stretch, but it does fit MW2's Shadow Company. Both are mercenaries (Makes more since for MW2's SC to be mercenaries/PMC). What do you guys think? - User:11Morey December 3, 2011 2:49 PM (EST)
Shadow Company is a nic-name for mercenary PMCs.
Is it me or does Shadow Company seem rather icompetent. There's all the fuss about how they're really well trained and highly dangerous but how can a unit of that caliber almost get completely wiped out by two men (Soap and Price? 18.104.22.168 17:06, January 16, 2012 (UTC)
Shadow Company is not a Black ops Unit
Despite what the page may say, Shadow Company is NOT a Black Ops unit. A Black Ops unit would use more USA equipment. The Rangers and TF141 do not use the MG4, P90, RPD, Vector, WA2000, Dogs, Riot Shields, AA-12, SPAS-12, G18, or the Mini-Uzi. Also, since a black ops unit would be part of the US military, Shepherd could not have set off explosives in Hotel Bravo, or have killed dozens in an arty strike without being tried in a military court. They seem to work only for Shepherd, as he says "If you're inside your service will be honored". Note that he does not mention the US in his sentance. Kingtiger13123 (talk) 22:06, August 18, 2012 (UTC)
"Black Ops" refers specifically to operations carried out off the books and with plausible deniability, and not all units carrying out Black Operations are military. The CIA's Special Activities Division springs to mind here. There is no requirement that such a unit use American equipment. Shadow Company is such a unit, a unit which Shepherd uses do his dirty work.22:15, August 18, 2012 (UTC)
This is True, but the person who wrote the trivia didn't know. I still have the arguement that Shepherd does not say something like "If you're still inside, I am sorry and you will be honored in service of your country" Kingtiger13123 (talk) 22:18, August 18, 2012 (UTC)
Shadow Company is most likely a special forces unit and not a private military contractor, they are a sister group to Task Force 141. In Soap's journal he stated the "Shadow Company is a different breed. No more vodka-drunk Ultranationalists. They're trained like we are." this implies that the are a special forces unit just like Task Force 141 and not a private military contractors they are selected just like Task force 141 and have the same training as them. dwaters1990 (talk) 1:44 p.m. PST February 27, 2017
- "They're trained like we are" doesn't imply anything, other than that SC is well trained. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 22:34, February 27, 2017 (UTC)
- Soap is clearly stating that Shadow Company is a another special operations task force created by Shepard and not a private organization. dwaters1990 (talk)
I had really hoped Shadow Company, my favorite faction (sorry, I just like the name and their outfits) would be in multiplayer. But they weren't. I know this was brought up before with the reason being the lack of enemies. If there were Shadow Company maps, they could be against TF141 or even the Inner Circle.
Star Wars Reference?
Just saying, Shadow Company is probably a reference tp the Storm Troopers/Clones Troopers from Star Wars 3 Revenge of the Sith. Both are considered elite forces (not true for either of them.) and they both use the most up to date qweapons and veichles. Both are commanded by powerful corrupt leapders, (Emoperor Palpatine, General Shepherd)., and They both betray a group of special warriors they were meant to protect (the Jedi, TF141), and they did this to make sure their leader's agenda was accomplished (Desroy the droids, and Destroyh Makarov) Kingtiger13123 (talk) 01:40, August 20, 2012 (UTC)
- Well, Shepherd was trying to kill everyone who was involved in his plan. He used Task Force 141 to retrieve Makarov's Playback (which likely also implicated Shpeherd behind everything), and then killed the operatives who recovered it. Since he knew this would result in TF 141 calling for help, he went a step further, ordering all of the organization to be purged.
- As far as Palpatine, he had Count Dooku set up the entire war, so that Palpatine would be granted emergency powers, and effectively unquestioned control of the republic. Once the droids were at the breaking point, and Mace Windu had already become aware of the fact that Palpatine was the sith lord they had been searching for a thousand years, Palpatine killed him, and made Anakin his new apprentice. He went a step further, issuing a secret order, Order 66, since he knew the Jedi would attempt to stop him, and if he killed all the Jedi, there would be no one left to stop him from changing the Republic into an Empire.
03:29, August 20, 2012 (UTC)
I actually compared Shadow Company to Halo 2 more than Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith. Task Force 141 (the Elites) and 'murica (the Brutes) exist together and fight alongside one another, however Shephard (Truth) wants to be rid of TF141 because it's very likely information putting Shephard in a bad position (The Great Journey being a lie) will be revealed, so he makes TF141 do a mission for him (Quarantine Zone) before getting Shadow Company (the Brutes) to betray them and hunt them down. TF141 breaks away from their friendly relationship with America and promptly return to go at war with the Brutes, with assistance from the Inner Circle (the UNSC/Humanity from Halo). --Ebon Shadowshot (Talk) (Contributions) 22:23, August 20, 2012 (UTC)
Shadow Company NOT a black ops unit
So with all of the discussion of Shadow Company, I'm genuinely surprised to hear how many think it's something other than a PMC. So I will my evidence for why it is definitely not a black ops unit, and almost certainly not a military unit at all.
1. They are wearing unit patches and American flag patches. Why on Earth would a black ops unit do that? If the whole point is plausible deniability as others have pointed out, why would you make the organization look so similar to an SOF unit, complete with insignia? To say nothing of the fact that Shepard probably would not be physically present giving them orders if plausible deniability was a concern. Furthermore, they were stopping vehicles and people trying to pass by their territory, which means they were in an area where they were being seen, yet were they were not killing or capturing everyone on sight. A well equipped American organization that large, wearing identifying insignia, would be immediately presumed as the US military my most people. The only other plausible explanation would be a PMC, which means if Shadow Company is not a PMC, they are definitely posing as one. Plus, a PMC as good as Shadow Company could provide much the same benefit as a black ops unit to Shepard- maybe even more. They aren't subject to military command and thus take orders from Shepard directly without having to worry about anyone else knowing about what they do or stopping it. They are a civilian force operating in a foreign country, which means it is going to be difficult as hell to prosecute them for any crimes. And their only loyalty is to the contract.
2. They had basically the whole of the HQ slaughtered by two guys. Now, I know Call of Duty tends to make you the player (and the SAS) into supermen. But two guys killing scores if not more of American SOF operators? That crosses the rather thick line of suspension of disbelief. Infinity Ward wasn't this stupid. People are speculating that they were SOF based on their irregular equipment (which I will cover in moment) and Price's line that they weren't "vodka drunk ultranationalists" and they were "trained like we are". But this could simply mean that they were trained by a first world, Western military as opposed to squatting gopniks and ex-conscripts. It may have just meant that they were professionals. Of course, a PMCs employ a disproportionately high number of former SOF, so some of them may have indeed been elite, but likely only a fraction.
3. Their uniforms are black. And they are standardized that way, as in they all wear that. Black fatigues haven't really been a thing in the US military since the 80's. It's terrible as a camo, nor does make you inconspicuous. In the US, it is primarily used by law enforcement, and even they are switching to military camouflage for their tactical units. But a PMC makes their own dress code, and we have seen use of black, likely for the intimidation factor. In fact, their equipment seems very much like a PMC. They do make use of some vehicles from the US military inventory, but these could either be surplus or a reflection of the fact that the developers didn't want to make a whole bunch of new models and animations when they didn't have to. We do see them make use of special SUVs and civilian trucks/technicals. PMCs use these in real life.
4. We hear discussions about hazard pay and double pay. Hazard pay exists in military, but it refers to things like air crew duties, handling ordnance, etc. It is NOT the same as combat pay. I think the inclusion of these guys talking about pay (we never hear anyone else in COD talk about it, yet these guys mention it multiple times) is meant to be a nod to their status as contractors.
5. Infinity Ward, or perhaps their publisher, are very smart about marketing. They know that having you kill a whole bunch of American soldiers in multiple missions is not something that the COD audience might be as receptive to. Especially the lucrative American audience. Not to mention, Shadow Company is depicted as doing some evil shit. Again: why demonize a respected community when you can pin it on one ultranationalist madman (Shepard)? For this reason, they would almost certainly choose a PMC (the classic, cheap bad guys anyone can use that have no political affiliation, won't offend anyone, and are inherently understood as morally ambiguous at best and greedy killers at worst) rather than the respected American SOF community. At the very least, they would make them intentionally ambiguous. I think they gave us enough signs (as I have mentioned above) to evoke a sense of elite guys while reassuring us that we are not casually killing US operators by the score, and are instead killing mercenaries.
Anyway, regardless of who we are, I think we can all agree that Shadow Company was a cool faction and it's a damn shame that we didn't get to see more of them.Pvt sleepy (talk) 13:20, May 26, 2017 (UTC)
Speculation aside, there is no concrete evidence that Shadow Company is/ever was a PMC unit. All we know for certain is that they were an elite military unit under the command of Shepherd, just as TF 141 was. Like a post above of noted, this Wiki is about providing accurate information, not guesses that fit our subjective sense of what we want something to be. Until Infiinty Ward or some other affiliate identifies Shadow Company as a PMC unit, we simply have no idea, and the Wiki should reflect that accordingly.
16:29, November 7, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
- It's never stated that they're mandated either. And they bear nothing on them to signify that they're not a PMC. The sheer fact they're named would mean that they answer to Shepherd and not any form of government, thus making them a PMC. 20:06, November 7, 2017 (UTC)
- Okay... what about TF 141 then? Did they answer to Shepherd? Yup. Were they "named"? You bet. Did they have their own special insignia? Yup again. Now, are they a PMC unit? Nope, so how can we use any of those pieces of evidence to suggest that Shadow Company is? (And how do we know for a fact that Shadow Company doesn't answer to government?)
- Now, I'm not saying that there's no chance they can't be a PMC, but any of the points you listed can be countered with the structure of TF 141. It seems like a lot of the "authority" commentators on here want them to be a PMC, but, like we've just discussed, there's really no way to know, and I think the Wiki should reflect that. Again, Shadow Company can't be whatever you want it to be just because you want it to be so - there needs to be some sort of story confirmation (or, at the very least, strong supporting evidence that can't be applied to any of the other units in the game). Even the "headshots pay double" line we hear in the radio files is far too loose for a PMC interpretation.
- Elvis2500 (talk) 21:11, November 7, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
- Actually, it is stated that TF 141 is a branch of the military. As it points out at one point how they get their recruits, as well as the fact that they report in to other branches of the military. I mean, you're having a go at us for claiming "just because you want it to be so ", but your argument is just as strong. Shadow Company is never seen doing anything that would fit the ideas of a mandated force, otherwise we likely would of seen them during the starting levels. They don't get involved until Shepherd starts betraying TF141, and at that point you can't really trust to be around people that are loyal to their country/government because you risk someone reporting what you're doing. They're loyal to Shepherd and his betrayal, which isn't something a regular combat group would really do. The way they act, how they're used and so on make them out more to be a PMC than anything else. 22:18, November 7, 2017 (UTC)
- Also. You keep reverting the edit to add what you believe despite being old to take it to the talk page. And even though you have someone actively refuting your debate, you're still ignoring those warnings. As such I need to warn you there is a fine line between wiki betterment and trying to force what you think on to the pages. The page has since been locked, but not going though with due process will get you blocked for edit warring. 22:25, November 7, 2017 (UTC)
- Those posting issues aside (which I'm now aware of)...
- "You're having a go at us for claiming 'just because you want it to be so ', but your argument is just as strong." No. Everything I've posted up to this point has come directly from the game. A lot of you guys, on the other hand, are passing speculation off as definitive fact.
- Shadow Company is a product of Shepherd's blank check, given to him by the Secretary of Defense - that's why we don't see them until the end. There's as much of a chance they could be a detachment of CIA operatives, a Black Ops unit, or Delta Force, as they could be PMC (remember, at this point the U.S. sees TF 141 as the bad guys) - the simple answer is, we don't have enough background information to accurately make a claim for any of those groups. All we know for certain is that SC is a task force assigned to Shepherd. That's the real extent of our knowledge. You're making a lot of assumptions, which is fine, but you can't pass that off as true or conclusive without a real confirmation - I just think the page should reflect that ambiguity.
- "There's as much of a chance they could be a detachment of CIA operatives, a Black Ops unit, or Delta Force, as they could be PMC"
- Except there isn't, since why would the us government hand a general a blank check, which he would then use to build an evil liar to employ US special forces if he is already in command of a special forces unit?
- "All we know for certain is that SC is a task force assigned to Shepherd."
- You're assuming that they were assigned to him, despite there being no evidence that they were assigned to him.
- What we know is that SC only appears after Shepherd's blank check and appear to be loyal to Shepherd himself rather than a cause (i.e. finding Makarov) and are deployed by Shepherd himself (since they only appear once Shepherd wants to eliminate TF141 into areas where TF141 is currently operating out of). The signs point far more towards them being Shepherd's personal units and not units attached to any nation or coalition of nations. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 00:51, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
- Point by point:
- 1. Yes, I'm aware. Thanks.
- 2. So you're thinking that all that stuff is just free? The vehicles? The man-power? The weapons? The drones we hear about in the radio files? The base in Afghanistan? No. It costs money to deploy forces, regardless of where they come from, and especially so in the wake of a war. SC could very plausibly be any of the units I listed, at least until we know any better. And, why would he form another special forces unit if he's already in charge of TF141? Well, that's kind of the main plot of MW2.
- 3. Did the "Ghost, this is Price, we're under attack by Shepherd's men in the Bonyeard..." line mean nothing to you? How about loyally listening to all of his commands, to the death in some instances? It's blatalntly obvious that they're assigned to Shepherd - they call him Gold Eagle for crying out loud. You even said it yourself in your fourth paragraph: "[SC] appear[s] to be loyal to Shepherd himself."
- 4. By the time Loose Ends rolls around, SC's mission, as we see through their actions, is to:
- A. Eliminate the "traitorous" TF 141
- B. Find and eliminate Makarov
- What makes you think they weren't working towards those ends? Where'd you pull that from?
- Again, I still don't see how any of what you wrote concretely solidfies their status as PMCs, sorry. Your interpretation obviously is that they are, which is great, but at the end of the day, that's all you have: an interpretation. I just don't think that should constitute a definitive ruling here.
- Elvis2500 (talk) 02:28, November 8, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
- But you have the same issue. You have no real concrete evidence they're mandated by a government. And more evidence in how they operate fits in more with a PMC. If we remove it, then it gives the impression they're a mandated force, which doesn't work with how they operate. 11:59, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
- Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? You criticize the wiki for making assumption, but then assume that I think SC gets everything for free (even though I never stated nor implied that) and that their mission was to find and eliminate Makarov even though we never hear or see any evidence of such and the only time we see them engaging Makarov's forces is when they're in areas where TF141 was deployed. And I don't see how calling them "Shepherd's men" and Shepherd having the callsign of Gold Eagle is somehow proof that they were assigned to Shepherd. In fact, units being blindly loyal to the point of death would suggest that they're not simply assigned to Shepherd. Not to mention that being loyal to Shepherd himself (which you agree with) would mean that they're definitely not simply assigned to Shepherd since there's very few modern militaries where your allegiance lies with the general in charge of your unit instead of a nation. Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 14:59, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
- Elvis2500 (talk) 02:28, November 8, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
- Where have I ever stated that they're conclusively "mandated" by the government? I'm only claiming that we can't definitively know what they are. Now, if I was going to argue what you said, I'd probably use the little snippet in the radio files that says they have access to the facial recognition date base at Langley, and also the fact that fighter jets flew by Site Hotel Bravo, but again, that's not my main point here.
"If we remove it, then it gives the impression they're a mandated force, which doesn't work with how they operate." What does this mean? How would identifying them as something like a task force imply that? You seem to think that the way they "operate" is exclusive to a PMC agency... no, no it isn't. There is no clear cut evidence to even moderatly support that claim, and as we discussed earlier, any of their signature traits (uniform, ensignia, etc) can be interpretted in a variety of different ways; there's too much ambiguity there for you to definitively state they are anything other than Shepherd's task force. The minute you start using things like "it appears...," "it seems...," or "I think...," is the minute you start putting specualation and opinion over actuality, and that's when a Wiki loses credibilty.
No, I'm not just arguing "for the sake iof arguing," so let's not play that game - I'm arguing because I feel the "PMC" tagline misrepresents Shadow Company's origins, as, in reality (the real reality, not your reality), we don't know what they are. And yes, you're correct that I misunderstood you the first time (I thought you were saying something along the lines of, "why would Shepherd use government forces if he got a blank check?"), but what does that have to do with making assumptions within in the context of the game? (Hint: it doesn't, so I'm not really sure why you threw that in.) The story arc between the end of Loose Ends and Endgame (and also Shepherd's overall character/agenda) really makes SC's role clear, so I don't know what to tell you there. Same exact thing with how the Gold Eagle callsign and "Shepherd's men" (in addition to other things) clearly imply that Shepherd's in command of SC - the facts are literally staring at you in the face. At the end of the day, what really makes SC a PMC agency? Well, nothing speficially. Could they be one? Yup. Could they not be one? Also yup. So can we say definitively that they're one or the other? No. This is the basis of my argument.
Have to love your last part - again, you're making a lot asumptions and broad generalizations. Basically, and correct me if I'm wrong, you think that, because they're to loyal Shepherd, they must be PMCs, because no regular military unit would show that kind of devotion to their superiors? Please, man. That doesn't just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Honestly, the fact that it takes only very broad and loose interpretations of things to convince you that SC is a PMC agency, yet it requires hard, concrete evidence to pin them to Shepherd (which is literally part of the plot), tells me everyhting I need to know about where you're at with this. With that said, it really is apparent neither you, nor your mod buddy, have any intentions of discussing this with an open mind, so I think I'm done here. There's no difference between speculation and fact, right? Not on this Wiki, apparently.
- "because no regular military unit would show that kind of devotion to their superiors? Please, man. That doesn't just doesn't make a whole lot of sense." - Most people that serve in the army and not a PMC are more likely to turn round and refuse to carry out orders that put their allies in risk. I mean if you were in the US army and your superior told you to go bomb Canada without having orders from anyone above them, would you? The idea of the force not being a PMC seems ludicrous. When it comes to an armed force you only have 3 forms. Government mandated, partisans and PMCs. IF we remove the PMC bit, then they have to be swapped to one of those two. As more evidence supports them being a PMC then taking that out wouldn't make sense. There's no such thing as a "neutral" word for armed forces, so it's not something where we can just rephrase. While we do rely somewhat on assumptions, they're still well informed. Which is why to cahnge it we need concrete evidence to support that Shadow Company is in fact explicitly "not" a PMC. 19:27, November 8, 2017 (UTC)
- Again with the assumptions man, please. "Most people this...," "if you were..." that - those aren't FACTS. That's your OPINION. Objectively speaking, neither you, nor I have any evidence to say that, at the very least, SC must be PMCs. It's really that simple.You could make just as many "well-informed" speculations about their origins as a black ops unit as you could a PMC agency, but the latter should be the lowest common denominator because you personally think, "most people that serve in the army and not a PMC are more likely to turn around and refuse to carry out orders that put their allies in risk"? I mean, where'd you pull that from? You ever here about the war crimes committed by the Nazi SS? And, I thought the point of this Wiki was fact over educated guesses? I mean, someone said years ago on this thread that "in this Wiki, we don't allow speculation" - has that since changed?
- All we really know - and this is really all we know - is that SC is a task force - whether it be PMC-based or government-based - under Shepherd's command. I've probably repeated that at least 20 times to this point. Now I'm done (hopefully).
- Elvis2500 (talk) 21:35, November 8, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
- Yet. You have no solid evidence that they "aren't" a PMC. We use a well informed assumption because there's never any solid information given on Shadow Company on exactly what they are. And as I stated above. There is no neutral term for armed forces. There is nothing we can change it to without grouping it to something that may also be wrong. Unless you have concrete evidence stronger than what we have to state they aren't a PMC the facts we currently have to work with is that they are a PMC. And this is without taking in to account Online where it's stipulated that that they are mercenaries and that someone defected from TF 1414 to join them. 00:03, November 9, 2017 (UTC)
- "Again with the assumptions man, please. "Most people this...," "if you were..." that - those aren't FACTS. That's your OPINION. Objectively speaking, neither you, nor I have any evidence to say that"
- No, Sam's right. When you swear an oath of loyalty into say, the US Military, you swear it to the Constitution, not a commanding officer. Part of the reason why soldiers are moved around so much and why officers change their MOS frequently is to prevent troops from becoming more loyal to a commanding officer than their country. Hell, it's even the duty of a soldier to refuse any unlawful orders given by superiors (which very much came into effect after WWII, BTW).
- "You ever here about the war crimes committed by the Nazi SS?"
- It's almost as if the SS was the paramilitary wing of a political party that was made up of radical and devoted members of the party or something... Conqueror of all Zombies (talk) 00:10, November 9, 2017 (UTC)
- I keep telling myself I'm not going to come back here and respond, but I feel compelled to do so:
- 1. "You have no solid evidence that they 'aren't' a PMC." Neither do you. Like I've been saying for days at this point, I can use any of the evidence you think supports them being PMCs as evidence for them being a special operations force or a black ops unit - what you're saying ISN'T STRONG enough to directly tie their origins to a PMC agency. Did you also happen to miss my point about how American fighter jets and/or a Predator make a close fly-by at SHB? I didn't know PMCs had access to that kind of tech.
- 2. "There is nothing we can change it to without grouping it to something that may also be wrong..." Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. You're literally even admitting yourself that you don't know for sure. Again, I'm not sure why you think the baseline here is that they're a PMC organization.
- 3. "And this is without taking in to account Online where it's stipulated that that they are mercenaries..." I'm just gonna go out a limb here and guess that helped write that page, too. Really not sure how this supports anything. And, are you really gonna use the plot of game released exclusively in one country as evidence? That's weak.
- 4. "No, Sam's right. When you swear an oath of loyalty into say, the US Military..." Great, that's all great, but I still don't see how any of that factors into supporting the claim that SC is a PMC organization. Where do we ever see SC "swearing" their loyalty to Shepherd? You think, and correct me if I'm wrong, PMCs must listen and obey every command to the death? Are you sure about that? Since assuming things seems to be the thing we do best on this Wiki, let's assume: how can we know that the soldiers in SC knew they were doing something, if anything, wrong? Task Force 141 certainly didn't know Shepherd's true colors. Remember, the story arc between Loose Ends and Endgame paints TF141 as the bad guys in the eyes of America, not the player. And like I said before, loyalty (or even so much as listening to an order) doesn't directly mean they're PMCs.
- 5. "It's almost as if the SS was the paramilitary wing of a political party that was made up of radical and devoted members..." Yeah, well no shit investigator, but that wasn't my point - all I was trying to illustrate there is that loyalty isn't exclusively tied to private, perhaps "impartial", organizations or people, and, admittedly, this probably wasn't the best example. In any case, though, we simply don't have enough evidence to directly pin SC's origins to a PMC agency. You're both making a lot of assumptions about not only their behavior, but also the behavior of what you perceive as "traditional" military forces, and while that's all a lot of fun, you can't use those to definitively say one thing over the other. What we can accept, however, is the fact that they are task force under the command of General Shepherd, and that's all we can really, truly, definitvely say about their origins, without speculating.
- Elvis2500 (talk) 16:36, November 9, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
- A huge chunk of text for something that still doesn't solve the issue. You admit you have no evidence to say they're not a PMC, and as there is no neutral word applicable to give to them we go off of reasonable assumption. As I feel you have yet to really bring up and evidence that they "aren't" a PMC I see no reason to change the article. Furthermore I find your comment "eah, well no shit investigator" to be aggressive towards my fellow user and this makes me feel you are only continuing this argument for the sake of argument. For these reasons, unless you can bring forward any concrete evidence that goes against the info we currently have to work with, this discussion is over. 21:53, November 9, 2017 (UTC)
- I have 5 evenly spaced points that are collectively less than some of the comments you've wrote, and if you don't think they solved anything, well, that's your opinion. And, where did I admit anything? I literally gave you two pieces of evidence that you apparently neglected to recognize (predator drones flying around SHB, and having access to the facial recognition data base at Langley [obviously referring to the CIA]), in addition to stating that any of the "evidence" that you listed could be interpretted in a variety of different ways. I've spent days now refuting point after point, repeating myself over and over again, without anything getting through. Honestly, have you even read anything that I've written thus far? Also, your moderator friend is allowed to make a snarky sarcastic remark towards me ("It's almost as if the SS was the paramilitary wing of a political party that was made up of radical and devoted members of the party or something..."), but when I do so, it's "aggressive"? Come on dude, that's not true and you know it. Contrary to what you believe, I don't scour forums all day looking for arguments. Simple answer is this: you don't know that they're PMCs. You just don't. For some reason. though, you seem to think that should constitute the baseline until we're convinced otherwise.
- Now, assuming you've either been misunderstanding me this entire time or just haven't read any of my comments, here's the lowdown in a slightly more broad way (and please, if you're going to end this discussion, read it in full):
- We don't know what Shadow Company is, aside from the fact that they appear with Shepherd commanding them after he receives his blank check. The fundamental problem is that you think they must automatically be PMCs. You don't explicitly state why you think that, but I'm assuming it's because, in the context of MW2, we see the Rangers and the rest of the U.S. Military as the good guys; therefore, when we see Shadow Company show up and betray TF141, you think they must not be attached to the government (i.e. the good guys), because they just killed what we - the player - perceive as the protagonists. You see, that's the game's plot twist.
- The story between the conclusion of Loose Ends and End Game (and it really continues well into MW3) paints the reamants of TF141 as the bad guys in the eyes of the U.S.; at a surface level and to Americans (including the government), there's no "wrongdoing" or "crime" being committed by Shepherd. So, with that said, is it really all that implausible to think that SC could be a contingent of hand picked operators for a task force? No, not really. They don't stand out operationally from any special operations unit. They share many qualities with TF141, in both uniform (they each have their own special patches) and in their mission (which, based on what we know, is at the very least to aid Shepherd in elimianting Makarov), and just because they're protecting Shepherd doen't mean he's their be all, end all. (And remember, Shepherd has never really shown that much respect for his men: "Since when does Shepherd care about danger close?".)
- Now, this doesn't mean that SC can't possibly be a PMC organization, but it does prevent us from casting them as one right off the bat and sticking with it until we're convinced otherwise. That's my argument, and that's why I feel we need to change their identification to "task force".
- Elvis2500 (talk) 23:14, November 9, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
- Again. You "feel" we should change it. So your points are as much assumption as ours. ATLAS is a PMC with a WMD, PMCs can have a lot of power, and Shepherd had a blank cheque and as he was a member of the armed forces he would have access to quite a lot that he could grant Shadow Company. points are being read, but you keep repeating yourself because when we refute a point you bring it back up again. And you seem to keep ignoring my massive fact in that "there is no neutral term". If we change it to task force, and then assume they are government mandated we do so based on your assumptions and no facts. And since more people at present believe the reasonable assumption is that they are a PMC it is clear that is what is the accepted hypothesis. 12:56, November 11, 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, I "feel" that we should change it. That's kind of why we have discussions, and no, this does not make my argument an assumption; I've never said that I "feel" my main point is incorrect or an assumption, because it just isn't. Calling them a "task force" doesn't assume that they're a government mandated force, so I'm not really sure you where you got that. Again, you're not providing any evidence that they're a PMC, but, in your opinion, the lowest common denominator (or the "neutral" term, as you keep calling it) should be that they are? I mean, how does "PMC" suggest neutrality? It doesn't - at the end of the day, you're still making an unsupported assumption about their origins. (And I say "unspported" because your only evidence is the fact that we don't know what they are, so they must be PMCs.) If you can accept the fact that Shepherd has access to "quite a lot that he could grant Shadow Company" (assuming you're referring to my Predator Drone comment), how can you accept that they must, at the very least, be a PMC organization? If he has so much access to government tech and resources, what's stopping him from just forming a special operations unit similar to TF141? This is an assumption, yes, but it's just as plausible as your PMC interpretation.
- My main point here is that neither you nor I really know where they come from. Labeling them as task force would insinuate that they're a unit specially organized for a task (that's literally the definition of task force), not a mandated government force - don't confuse the umbrella term of "task force" with the origins of TF141 in the game. And, more people at present believe it? I count 3 people who have posted this year (and since when does popular opinion equate to the right opinion?). You really think that's enough support to constitute a definitive ruling? You're even admitting yourself at this point that you're passing specualtion off as fact. I don't want to read your opinion on a Wiki page, sorry - I'm there for accurate information. Changing the PMC tagline to "task force" would simply pin them to Shepherd (which we know and can't deny) without assuming their true origins.
- Elvis2500 (talk) 16:36, November 11, 2017 (UTC)Elvis2500
Right, so what is your evidence in support of the assertion that they are a US Military unit beyond the fact that you think it makes sense?19:08, November 11, 2017 (UTC)
I'm not saying that they're U.S. Military - I'm saying we don't definitively know what they are, so we therefore can't definitively label their origins with any real certainity. When I use those examples, I'm doing it to show how interpretative the current information we have is; I could say SC is a special operations unit with just as much credence as someone who says they are a PMC organization. And, where do people like Sam and CoZ get their assertions, other than from their own subjective sense of what they want them to be? What do I agree with Sam on is the fact that we need a neutral term, but I don't agree that labeling them as private military contractors is the way to convey that ambiguity. That's why I'm suggesting we change the current PMC identification to "task force" - this doesn't insinuate that they're part of any sanctioned military, nor does it insinuate they are PMC unit, because you're right, we don't have any real evidence to support those claims. What it does do, though, is tell us that they're a unit specially organized for a task (which, like I previously said, is literally the definition of "task force" verbatim), without assuming their origins.
So is that it? Are we not going to give this a second thought?
- No, because the evidence is overwhelmingly against you and by COD:CON the discusson is surely over. 19:33, November 15, 2017 (UTC)
Well, the evidence isn't overwhelmingly against me. It just isn't. I've said that numerous times and explained it thorougly. You really can't assume that it's one thing over the other, at the end of the day.
Aboute the PMC Theory
At the beginning Site Hotel Bravo Campaign, the Player could clearly saw a bunch of F-15 Eagles fly over the canyon, with dozens of Sea knights and OH-6, and the Safehouse level already showed those Shadow Company soldiers arrived in 3 to 5 Pave Lows with USAF Labels.
So aside from the fact that Site Hotel Bravo being discovered by 2 Ex-SAS operators with the intel from Markarov, WHAT ON EARTH, would a PMC operation base in Afgan being protected by a bunch of Eagles, Sea Knights, nearly infinite numbers of OH-6, having acess to USAF Pave Lows for mobilization, and authorized to call in Artillery strikes (Excalibur)?
- Money. 14:43, May 31, 2018 (UTC)
- Shepherd was given blank-check access to US Military hardware following the EMP strike. The game establishes that quite clearly. 15:02, May 31, 2018 (UTC)
- Money could explain the fact about Pave Lows or OH-6, but cannot explain how they're protected by a bunch of USAF fighters.Even EO or Triple Canopy didn't have that power.
- By the way , although Black fatigues were not worn by real life SOCOMs, the Force Recon in Modern Warfare (Level Heat and No Fighting in the War Room) appeared in black fatigues.
- Wolfensniper (talk) 15:16, May 31, 2018 (UTC)
- Shep was in the US Army, they could of had joint operations at times. ATLAS is seen operating alongside the Marines in IW. It's completely possible for military organisations to work together. 16:19, May 31, 2018 (UTC
- But why are we passing speculation off as fact? Wikis are supposed to be objective, not speculative.
- Elvis2500 (talk) 10:47, July 23, 2018 (UTC)Elvis2500
- Please provide solid evidence from a writer of MW2 to confirm what you are saying. You lack facts yourself. 12:15, July 23, 2018 (UTC)
- What do you mean? Should I ask a writer from MW2 if Wikis are supposed to be objective or not? I asked YOU why you're so keen on passing speculation off as fact.. So, give me some solid, objective evidence (meaning evidence that can't be interpretted in a variety of different ways) that Shadow Company is a private military organization. Emphasis on SOLID EVIDENCE. Not interpretation or speculation..Don't staw man this.
- Elvis2500 (talk) 13:40, July 23, 2018 (UTC)Elvis2500
- You cannot present evidence to the contrary. You instead insist on making this a circular debate.This topic has ended. Please do not drag it on. 16:55, July 23, 2018 (UTC)
- It's been almost a year. Have you found any evidence yet to support that they Shadow Company is a PMC?
- We're still waiting for you to actually provide evidence in support of your own claims. 18:33, March 22, 2019 (UTC)~
- I've made several arguments with evidence, but you and the other select "elite" haven't even given me the respect of at least considering them. You guys are the ones claiming that they are a PMC. The burden is on you to provide the evidence. If you don't have any (which, if our past discussions are any indication, you don't), that's fine, but at least admit it and open this back up to debate.
- "I think this is true" isn't evidence. And given that all you've done on this wiki for the last year and a half is try and push this, I do have to wonder why. 18:55, March 22, 2019 (UTC)~
- ""I think this is true" " - exactly. Take your own advice, I'm begging you. Stop with the strawmans, and give me a shrivel of conclusive evidence that they are a PMC unit. Then, we can discuss .
- Or you can take your own advice and provide conclusive evidence that they are a military task force. 19:02, March 22, 2019 (UTC)